Mark 8:12 Why does this generation seek after a sign?

Spoken to: 

The Pharisees

Pharisees come to him and ask for a sign from heaven.

KJV: 

Mark 8:12 Why does this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

NIV : 

Mark 8:12 Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it.”

LISTENERS HEARD: 

Why does this same type seek a proof?  Amen, I  would tell you, if a proof will be given by this generation, this one. 

MY TAKE: 

You cannot give people what they do not want.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

Τί             γενεὰ   αὕτη  ζητεῖ  σημεῖον;
Why does this type same seek   proof? 

ἀμὴν       λέγω,              [ὑμῖν] εἰ  δοθήσεται                 τῇ   γενεᾷ           ταύτῃ    σημεῖον.
Honestly I would tell     you,   if   will be given       by this generation. this one  a sign

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

There is NO NEGATIVE in the last part of this verse. The negative was added to make it seem more like the verses in Matthew and Luke. However, this version is a wry statement playing on his catchphrase, "Amen I tell you." The play on words depends on several aspects of the verb and noun forms.

The last phrase is an IF phrase. It would not confuse the people listening to ,it but it isn't clear until the last few words. Notice in the narrative. An "if" phrase at the end works differently at the end of the sentence than at the beginning of an “if/then” and differently depending on the verb form.

Its meaning hinges on several little tricks with the words. The first trick is the "say/tell" in his amen phrase. It could be a statement, but it could also be a possibility, "I might/should tell you." It is followed by the "if" phrase. Notice that the verb comes right after the "if," this is important because the form of the verb is NOT subjunctive, that is, this is not a possibility. It is a future tense indicative verb, "will be given." With this verb form, an "if" phrase at the end of a statement is used for emphasis.

The next noun, "generation," is in a form that requires the addition of a preposition in English. Still, the translator must decide which preposition to use: a "to" as an indirect object is the most common. However, the translator can choose other prepositions: "with,"  "in,"   "of,"  "as," "by," "for," "at," or "on" depending on the context. The initial subjective ("might tell") followed by an emphasis phrase changes the dative to mean "by" an agent. The change in the adjective after "generation," hidden in translation, signals this change in meaning. Jesus wants to be given proof  "by this generation" before he tells them what they want to know, his proof to them. 

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

6
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "after" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "there" should be something more like "if."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "no" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "this" is the not word translated as "this" with "generation" above.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

7
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "ask."
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "no" should be something more like "if."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "it" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "this" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "generation" is not shown in the English translation.

EACH WORD of KJV : 

Why   -- The word translated as "why" means primarily "anything" or "anyone," but Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who", "what", or even "why". 

does --  This word is added to make the question flow more smoothly in English.

this --  -- The word translated as "this" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

generation -- The word translated as "generation" means "race", "family", and "generation". The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type.  Jesus uses this term frequently in criticism, but that criticism seems more aimed at a particular type of people than his generation. It is the word from which we get the scientific "genus".

seek -- The Greek verb translated as "seek after" has a variety of meanings around the idea of "searching" and "desiring". It has a sense of seeking with a specific aim.  '

after -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "after" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used as a prefix to the word above.

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a word doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

sign?  - "Sign" is the noun that means "mark (by which things are known)," , "a proof" (in reasoning), "sign (of the future)", "sign from the gods", "signal (to do things)," and "standard (flag)." Jesus seems to use it more in the sense of "proof."

verily -- The word translated is as "verily" is an exclamation that means "truly" or "of a truth." It is an untranslated Aramaic word that is echoed by a similar Greek word, and a good piece of evidence that Christ taught in Greek, not Aramaic. Its vocabulary and meaning are discussed in detail in this article.

I -- This comes from the form of the following verb.

say -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," and "to speak," but it also means "to teach," which seems to be the way Christ uses it more frequently. It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself." Jesus  usually uses this word to refer to his own speaking or teaching. The form of the verb could also be a possible action, "might say" or "should say."

unto -- This word "unto" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English, but the translator must decide which preposition to use: a "to" as an indirect object.

you,  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you," "for you," etc. This does not appear in a few Greek sources including the one I used, but it appears in most.

There --  (WW) -- The "there" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if"  and "whenever." With the future tense indicative, (used here), it is used for emphasis, a warning, or an intention. The emphasis clause is after the main statement as it appears here.

shall -- This comes from the future tense of the verb "given." 

no -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "no" in the Greek source

sign -- The meaning of the Greek word for "sign" that stands out here is the idea of "proof." Proof is in the eye of the beholder. What may have been a sign to those who were hungry for his teaching, meant nothing to those who see themselves as leaders.

be -- This comes from the passive form of the following verb.

given -- The verb translated as "given" means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over", "appoint", "establish," and "to describe." It is almost always translated as some form of "give." If we look at Jesus's use of the word for "give," he uses it mostly to discuss the giving of food in parables and the giving of understanding. 

unto -- This word "unto" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English, but the translator must decide which preposition to use: a "to" as an indirect object like the "to you". However, the translator can choose other prepositions: "with,"  "in,"   "of,"  "as," "by," "for," "at," or "on" depending on the context. Here it seems to be a play on words, where if means "by" an agent, that is "by this generation."

this  --  (CW) "This" is translated from a Greek adjective that means "this," "that," "the nearer." Without a noun, it has the sense of "this one" or "that one." It is different than the "this" above."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

generation. -- The word translated as "generation" means "race", "family", and "generation". The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type.  Jesus uses this term frequently in criticism, but that criticism seems more aimed at a particular type of people than his generation. It is the word from which we get the scientific "genus".

EACH WORD of NIV : 

Why   -- The word translated as "why" means primarily "anything" or "anyone," but Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who", "what", or even "why". 

does --  This word is added to make the question flow more smoothly in English.

this --  -- The word translated as "this" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

generation -- The word translated as "generation" means "race", "family", and "generation". The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type.  Jesus uses this term frequently in criticism, but that criticism seems more aimed at a particular type of people than his generation. It is the word from which we get the scientific "genus".

ask-- CW)  The Greek verb translated as "ask" has a variety of meanings around the idea of "searching" and "desiring". It has a sense of seeking with a specific aim.  (This is not the word usually translated as "ask."

for -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "for" in the Greek source.  It was added because the word "ask" was used.

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a word doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

sign?  - "Sign" is the noun that means "mark (by which things are known)," , "a proof" (in reasoning), "sign (of the future)", "sign from the gods", "signal (to do things)," and "standard (flag)." Jesus seems to use it more in the sense of "proof."

Truly -- The word translated is as "truly" is an exclamation that means "truly" or "of a truth." It is an untranslated Aramaic word that is echoed by a similar Greek word, and a good piece of evidence that Christ taught in Greek, not Aramaic. Its vocabulary and meaning are discussed in detail in this article.

I -- This comes from the form of the following verb.

tell -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," and "to speak," but it also means "to teach," which seems to be the way Christ uses it more frequently. It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself." Jesus  usually uses this word to refer to his own speaking or teaching. The form of the verb could also be a possible action, "might tell" or "should tell."

you,  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you," "for you," etc. This does not appear in a few Greek sources including the one I used, but it appears in most.

No --  (WW) -- The "no" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if"  and "whenever." With the future tense indicative, (used here), it is used for emphasis, a warning, or an intention. The emphasis clause is after the main statement as it appears here.

sign -- The meaning of the Greek word for "sign" that stands out here is the idea of "proof." Proof is in the eye of the beholder.

will -- This comes from the future tense of the verb "given." 

be -- This comes from the passive form of the following verb.

given -- The verb translated as "given" means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over", "appoint", "establish," and "to describe." It is almost always translated as some form of "give." If we look at Jesus's use of the word for "give," he uses it mostly to discuss the giving of food in parables and the giving of understanding. 

to -- This word "to" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English, but the translator must decide which preposition to use: a "to" as an indirect object like the "to you". However, the translator can choose other prepositions: "with,"  "in,"   "of,"  "as," "by," "for," "at," or "on" depending on the context. Here it seems to be a play on words, where if means "by" an agent, that is "by this generation."

it. -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "it" in the Greek source

missing "this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "this" or "that," the nearer or the further depending on usage. As an adverb it can mean "therefore" and "that is why." It is not typically used as an adjective. It follows the word translated as "generation." 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

missing "generation"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "generation" means "race", "family", and "generation". The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type.  Jesus uses this term frequently in criticism, but that criticism seems more aimed at a particular type of people than his generation. It is the word from which we get the scientific "genus".

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

Τί [252 verses]((irreg sg neut nom) "Why" is tis which can mean "someone", "any one", "everyone", "they [indefinite]", "many a one", "whoever", "anyone", "anything", "some sort", "some sort of", "each", "any", "the individual", "such," and so on. In a question, it can mean "who", "why," or "what."

ἡ [821 verses] (article sg fem nom) Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"), which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones."

γενεὰ [19 verses](noun sg fem nom)"Generation" is from genea, which means "race", "family", "generation", "class," and "kind." It is a form of the word from which we get the scientific word,"genus."

αὕτη [41 verses](adj sg fem gen) "This" is from autou, which is the adjective used as third-person pronouns in the singular, feminine, genitive form.   This is also the adverbial form meaning "there." The word means "the same" when used as an adjective. It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord."

ζητεῖ [36 verses](verb 3rd sg pres ind/ act) "Seek after" is zeteo, which means "inquire for", "search for", "seek after", "desire", and "feel the want of." 

σημεῖον; [15 times](noun sg neut nom) "A sign" is from semeion, which means "mark (by which things are known)," , "a proof" (in reasoning), "sign (of the future)", "sign from the gods", "signal (to do things)," and "standard (flag).

ἀμὴν [91 verses](adv) "Verily" is amen, which is the Hebrew, meaning "truly", "of a truth," and "so be it." It has no history in Greek of this meaning before the NT. However, this is also the infinitive form of the Greek verb amao, which means "to reap" or "to cut." -- The word translated as "verily" is the Hebrew word that means "truly" or "certainly," but it sounds like the Greek word with the same meaning. In Greek, the word also means "to reap."

λέγω, [264 verses](1st sg pres ind act/subj) "I tell" is lego means "pick up", "choose for oneself", "pick out," and "count," "recount", "tell over", "say", "speak", "teach", "mean", "boast of", "tell of", "recite," "nominate," and "command." -- The word translated as "I tell" is the most common word that means "to say," and "to speak," but it also means "to teach," which seems to be the way Christ uses it more frequently. It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself." Christ usually uses this word to refer to his own speaking or teaching.

[ὑμῖν] [289 verses](pron 2nd pl dat) "To you" is humin the plural form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you." to -- This word "to" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object. -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you," "for you," etc. As the object of a preposition, this form implies no movement, but in a fixed position or events occur at a specified time or while the action was being performed. This does not appear in all Greek sources.

εἰ  [90 verses](conj) "There" is ei, which is the particle used to express conditions "if" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect questions, "whether." It also means "if ever", "in case," and "whenever." It is combined with various conjunctions to create derivative conditions.

δοθήσεται [147 verses](verb 3rd sg fut ind pass) "Shall be given" is didomi, which means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over," and "to describe."

τῇ [821 verses](article sg fem dat) Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"), which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones."

γενεᾷ[19 verses](noun sg fem dat) "Generation" is from genea, which means "race", "family", "generation", "class," and "kind." It is a form of the word from which we get the scientific word,"genus."

ταύτῃ [83 verses](adj sg fem dat) "This" (adj sg masc nom) "This" is houtos, which as an adjective means "this," "that," "the nearer." 

 σημεῖον [15 times](noun sg neut nom/acc) "A sign" is from semeion, which means "mark (by which things are known)," , "a proof" (in reasoning), "sign (of the future)", "sign from the gods", "signal (to do things)," and "standard (flag).

Related Verses: 

Unimportant Opinions and Imaginings: 

Jesus couldn't give people who didn't believe him a sign because they did not want to see it even though they say sought after it. What may have been a sign to those who were hungry for his teaching, meant nothing to those who see themselves as leaders.

Notice the contrast of this statement with the previous verse where Christ seems to be offering a sign his multiplication of the bread in feeding the four thousand as a proof of his philosophy.

This verse relates to two similar verses in Matthew, Matthew 16:4 (discussed here) and Matthew 12:39 (discussed here), though all have very different contexts, all these statements are trigger by religious leaders asking for a sign, but they are all addressed to an entire generation or class of people. The contexts of each of these three verses are very different but those echo each other in interesting ways.
What is particularly interesting about this context of this verse is that it comes right after the miracle of the loaves, feeding the four thousand and right before another discussion about bread and leaven.

Front Page Date: 

May 15 2023