Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it...

Spoken to: 

Apostles

After Jesus corrects Peter, he calls his students to him.

KJV: 

Mark 8:35 For whoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

NIV : 

Mark 8:35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.

LISTENERS HEARD: 

Because someone when he wants to rescue this, his own self, he will demolish it. Someone, however, when he  demolishes that self of his on account of me and the good news, he will rescue it.

MY TAKE: 

Awareness of our current life is preserved only if we are willing to sacrifice our current life to a greater one.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

ὃς            γὰρ        ἐὰν θέλῃ           τὴν   ἑαυτοῦ  ψυχὴν σῶσαι     ἀπολέσει             αὐτήν:
someone Because when he wants  this. his own self,    to rescue he will demolish it.

ὃς              δ᾽            ἂν      ἀπολέσει         τὴν  ψυχὴν      αὐτοῦ ἕνεκεν           [ἐμοῦ
Someone, however, when he  demolisesh that self      of his      on account of me   

καὶ] τοῦ εὐαγγελίου σώσει             αὐτήν.
and the  good news, he will rescue it.

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

The difference between this verses and similar verse in Matthew and Luke is the mention of the "gospel" instead of "my" sake. This version also makes it more clear that the word translated as "life" means "awareness" since in this verse the phrase "self-awareness" is used explicitly. 

This is a choice that we make. Though in the KJV, the first "will" looks the same as the future tense shall used in the other verbs in this verse, it isn't. It is the "will" of choice, of desiring or wanting something.

Whenever Jesus discusses life in the sense of being alive and especially when he promises "everlasting life," he uses a different Greek word which is not the word used here.  The word used here is the basis of our word psyche, which in Greek means "life" but specifically our sense of self. It is most commonly translated as "soul" in the NT.

The same Greek word translated as "life" in this verse is translated as "soul" in the next verse. This creates a clear paradox because Jesus clearly meant the same thing because he used the same word in the same context. This concept is discussed in detail in this article about this Greek word

We also see the opposite problem where two different Greek words are translated as the same English word. The word "save" here is a more common Greek word, while the one in the next verse is only used in that verse and its parallels in Mark and Luke. The key opposites here are "save" and "lose," which, in English, are very general words,  but in Greek, the words used have a meaning more directly related to what is translated as "life" and "soul." They have the sense of "rescue" and "kill."

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

8
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "when" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "will" does not mean the future tense.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "save" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to save."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "his" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- A second word "when" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The second "shall" does not mean the future tense.
  • MW - Missing Word -- A second "the" before the second "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • IP - Inserted Phrase-- The phrase "the same" doesn't exist in the source.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

7
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "when" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WN - Wrong Number- The word "their" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- A second word "when" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WN - Wrong Number- The second word "their" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
  • MW - Missing Word -- A second "the" before the second "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "gospels" is not an object but a possessive.

EACH WORD of KJV : 

For   - --The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

whoever - The word translated as "whoever" is from the Greek article, "the," (masculine, singular) which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one."

missing "when"  -- (MW) The untranslated word means "if might" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is often how we use the word "when."

will -- (CW) The word translated as "will" expresses consent and even delight in doing something.It is not the same as the helper verb "will" in English, which primarily expresses the future tense. The form indicates something that "might" happen, which is assumed with the "when."

save  - (WF) The second "save" verb is a present infinitive "to be preserved from death" or "keep alive." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

his -- (CW) "His" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," and so on. It is not the word usually translated as "his." The sense here is "self." This is not the simple pronoun, "his."

life -- The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to mean our identity in our worldly life specifically, the role we play on earth, what we commonly call our "ego."  See this article for detail about this word and related words. 

shall -- This helping verb "shall" indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

lose  - "Lose" is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It is in the future tense, unlike the "desire to save from death" phrase that begins the verse. 

it:  - "It" is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it."

but -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

whoever - The word translated as "whoever" is from the Greek article, "the," (masculine, singular) which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one."

missing "when"  -- (MW) The untranslated word means "if might" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is often how we use the word "when."

shall -- (CW) This helping verb "shall" does not indicate the future tense, but that the verb describes a possibility, the subjunctive voice. A "might" or "should" in English is more appropriate, but is assumed in an "if/when/whoever/except" clause. Helping verbs are not needed in Greek since the main verb carries this information in its form but in this case, it is implied by the "when" that wasn't translated.

lose  - "Lose" is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It is in the future tense, unlike the "desire to save from death" phrase that begins the verse. 

his -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

life  --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego."  See this article for detail about this word and related words.

for -- The form of the pronoun "my" requires the addition of extra words in English to capture its meaning.  The most common is the "of" of possession, but it can also mean "belonging to," "part of," "which is," "than" (in comparisons), or  "for," "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs. 

my -- The "me" is in the indirect object form on the first-person pronoun, so usually "to me," though the form has other uses in Greek. 

sake  -- The word translated as "sake" means "on account of," "because," and "in consequence of."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also") and, In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." When used in writing, it creates complex sentences, but when spoken, it makes a good pausing point so that an important or humorous word can follow.

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

gospel's, --  "Gospel" is translated from a Greek word meaning "good news," and "good tidings." Originally, this term described a reward, like a tip, given to a messenger who brought good news.

the same -- (IP) There is nothing that can be translated as "the same" in the Greek source.

shall -- This helper verb indicates the future tense of the following verb, but the KJV uses this word for a variety of verb forms.

save -- "Save" is the Greek word that means "to keep alive" when applied to people or "to keep safe" when applied to things. Jesus uses it to mean "rescue" in most cases.

it. -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective but he it is the object, not a subject.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it.

For   - --The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

whoever - The word translated as "whoever" is from the Greek article, "the," (masculine, singular) which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one."

missing "when"  -- (MW) The untranslated word means "if might" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is often how we use the word "when."

wants -- The word translated as "wants" expresses consent and even delight in doing something.It is not the same as the helper verb "will" in English, which primarily expresses the future tense. The form indicates something that "might" happen, which is assumed with the "when."

to -- This "to" is added because the infinitive form of the verb requires a "to" in English.

save  - The second "save" verb is a present infinitive "to be preserved from death" or "keep alive." 

their -- (WN) The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

life  --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego."  See this article for detail about this word and related words.

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

lose  - "Lose" is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It is in the future tense, unlike the "desire to save from death" phrase that begins the verse. 

it:  - "It" is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it."

but - The Greek word translated as "and" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  

whoever - The word translated as "whoever" is from the Greek article, "the," (masculine, singular) which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one."

missing "when"  -- (MW) The untranslated word means "if might" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is often how we use the word "when."

loses  - "Lose" is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It is in the future tense, unlike the "desire to save from death" phrase that begins the verse. 

their -- (WN) The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

life  --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego."  See this article for detail about this word and related words.

for  -- This preposition means "on account of," "as far as regards," "in consequence of," and "because." This proposition is usually paired with the noun "sake" in English. The word translated as "sake" means "on account of," "because," and "in consequence of."

me  - The "my" is the possessive pronoun, so "my," "of me," or "mine."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also") and, In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." When used in writing, it creates complex sentences, but when spoken, it makes a good pausing point so that an important or humorous word can follow.

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

gospel --  (WF) "Gospel" is translated from a Greek word meaning "good news," and "good tidings." Originally, this term described a reward, like a tip, given to a messenger who brought good news. This word is possessive, "gospel's."

will-- This helper verb indicates the future tense of the following verb, but the KJV uses this word for a variety of verb forms.

save -- "Save" is the Greek word that means "to keep alive" when applied to people or "to keep safe" when applied to things. Jesus uses it to mean "rescue" in most cases.

it. -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective but he it is the object, not a subject.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

ὃς [294 verses](pron sg masc nom) "Whoever" is hos, which means "this," "that," "he," "she," "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

γὰρ [205 verses](partic) "For" comes from gar (gar) which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for," "since," and "as." In an abrupt question it means "why" and "what."

ἐὰν [162 verses](conj) Untranslated is ean, which is a conditional particle (derived from ei (if)and an (might)) which makes reference to a time and experience in the future that introduces but does not determine an event.

θέλῃ [64 verses](3rd sg pres subj act) "Shall" is thelo, which as a verb means "to be willing," "to wish," "to ordain," "to decree," "to be resolved to a purpose" and "to desire." As an adjective, it means "wished for" and "desired."

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ἑαυτοῦ [15 verses](adj sg masc gen) "his" is heautou, is a reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," "itself" "themselves," and "ourselves." It is an alternative to autos.

ψυχὴν [43 verses](noun sg fem acc) "Life" is from psyche, which means "breath," "life," "self," "spirit," and "soul." It has the clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is often translated as "soul."

σῶσαι [25 verse](aor inf act) "Save" is sozo (soizo), which means "save from death," "keep alive," "keep safe," "preserve," "maintain," "keep in mind," "carry off safely," and "rescue."

ἀπολέσει [43 verses](3rd sg fut ind act) "lose" is apollymi, which is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It also means "to ruin" a woman.

αὐτὴν [39 verses](adj sg fem acc) "It"  is auten, in the form of the singular, object, feminine pronoun "her." It also  means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord."

ὃς [294 verses](pron sg masc nom) "Whoever" is hos, which means "this," "that," "he," "she," "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

δ  [821 verses](partic) "And" is de, which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

ἂν [162 verses](conj) "If" is ean, which is a conditional particle (derived from ei (if)and an (might)) which makes reference to a time and experience in the future that introduces but does not determine an event. -- The Greek word meaning "when" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is often how we use the word "when."

ἀπολέσει [43 verses] (verb 3rd sg fut ind act) "Shall lose" is from apollymi, which is a very strong form of "to destroy," "to kill," "to slay," and "to lose." It means "to destroy utterly." It also means "to ruin" a woman.

τὴν  [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ψυχὴν [43 verses](noun sg fem acc)"Life" is from psuchê (psyche), which means "breath," "life," "self," "spirit," and "soul." It has the clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is often translated as "soul."

αὐτοῦ [142 verses](adj sg masc gen)"His" is from autos (autos), which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord."

ἕνεκεν [17 verses](prep )"Sake" is from heneka, which means "on account of," "as far as regards," "in consequence of," and "because."

[ἐμοῦ [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "My" is from emou, which means "me," and "mine."

[kai] [1089 verses](conj) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

τοῦ  [821 verses]((article sg neut gen) "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"), which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones."

εὐαγγελίου [8 verses]( noun sg neut gen) "The gospel's" is from euaggelion a "reward of good tidings," a "thank offering for good tidings, ""good news," and "good tidings." Originally, this term described a reward, like a tip, given to a messenger who brought good news.

σώσει  [25 verse](verb 3rd sg fut ind act) "Shall save" is sozo (soizo), which means "save from death," "keep alive," "keep safe," "preserve," "maintain," "keep in mind," "carry off safely," and "rescue." -- "Made whole" is the Greek word that means "to keep alive" when applied to people or "to keep safe" when applied to things. Christ uses it to mean "rescue" in most cases.

αὐτὴν [39 verses](adj sg fem acc) "It"  is auten, in the form of the singular, object, feminine pronoun "her." It also  means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord."

Related Verses: 

Possible Symbolic Meaning: 

The question that Jesus addresses here is about our sense of  "self" is and what happens to it in life and death. In context of this discussion Jesus is saying that if we follow the ways of man, we lose our sense of self by trying to preserve it within the context of human society.  If we understand the ways of God, we realize that only by destroying that false sense of self that comes from society, can we find the self that persists after death.

If we strip away the metaphysical aspects of this verse, it is a very basic statement about how life works. We cannot stop time and how times changes us.  If we think of ourselves as our physical being and our place in society, we will see that self destroyed over the course of time.  However, if we can get rid of the sense of self, separating ourselves from our body and our current place in the world, we can preserve our sense of self through these changes.

This reality reflects the real good news, that though physical life ends, these is an eternal vitality (zoe) and spirit (psyche) that continues beyond the life we are currently living.

Front Page Date: 

May 27 2023