John 18:34 ...Sayest thou this thing of thyself,

Spoken to: 

an individual

Jesus is taken to Pilot because they cannot condemn him to death. Pilate asks if he is king of the Jews.

KJV: 

John 18:34 ...Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

NIV : 

John 18:34 Is that your own idea or did others talk to you about me?

LISTENERS HEARD: 

From yourself are you yourself saying this, or did others speak to you about me?

MY TAKE: 

Jesus wants us to take personal responsibility for what we say.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

Ἀπὸ σεαυτοῦ    σὺ    τοῦτο λέγεις                    ἄλλοι     εἶπόν       σοι         περὶ    ἐμοῦ;
From yourself   you  this    yourself say ,     or   others    did speak to  you   about me?

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

The Greek here makes a much bigger issue about Pilate saying this himself. The "thou/you" here is the pronoun. Since pronouns are not needed for subject in Greek, its use is to accentuate the word like we would say "you yourself".  "Thyself/your own" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself", "herself," and so on. This form begins with the Greek word "you" which is unusual.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

3
  • MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so it needs a "yourself" after "you" for emphasis.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "of" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "of" does not capture the word's specific meaning.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

6
  •   IW - Inserted Word -- The word "is" doesn't exist in the source.
  •   MW - Missing Word -- The word "you yourself" is not shown in the English translation
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "say" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "that" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "your own" is not a possessive but a subject.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "idea" doesn't exist in the source

EACH WORD of KJV : 

Sayest   -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."  When two accusative objects are used, the sense is  "say of him this," or "call him this."

thou . -- The  "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed. When it has a verb, the subject of the sentence is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."

this -- The word translated as "this" means "from here" "from there" or "this/that thing/person here/there." It often comes after the noun, emphasizing it, with the sense of "this one."

thing - There is no word, "thing," in the Greek source, but this word comes from the neuter, plural form of the previous adjective.

of -- (CW) The word translated as "from" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from." It is not the word form  usually translated as "of."

thyself,- The "yourself" is the second-person reflexive pronoun.

or -- "Or" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "or" but serves as "than" in a comparison. The same word could also be the exclamation "hi" or the adverb meaning "in truth."

did -- This English helping verb is used to create questions, commands, negative statements, and smooth word flow in translation from Greek

others --  The word translated as "others" means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further."  In a series, this means "one...another." -- The "another" here is feminine, making it clear that it refers to another woman more clearly than the English translation. - - The "others" here is masculine, plural, making it clear that it refers to a group of people.

tell - The word translated as "tell" means "to say" and "to speak." It is one of the two most common words translated "speak," "say" and "tell," but it has more a sense of addressing and proclaiming.

it -- There is no Greek pronoun here, but Greek does not need pronouns when the object can be assumed from the context. In English, they are added for the subject-verb-object form of our sentences.

thee -- The word for "you" is the indirect object form of the singular, second-person pronoun in the form of an indirect object, which usually requires a preposition in English, like "to you."

of  - (CW) The Greek word translated as "of" means "around" when referring to a place, but in referring to a subject, it means "about," "concerning," "on account of," and "in regard to." This is the way Jesus usually uses it. It is not the word form usually translated as "of."

me? -- "Me" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."  As a genitive object of a preposition, as here, it means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

Is -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "is" in the Greek source.

missing "you yourself"  -- (MW) The untranslated word   "you yourself" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed. When it has a verb, the subject of the sentence is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "say"  -- (MW) The untranslated word"say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."  When two accusative objects are used, the sense is  "say of him this," or "call him this."

that --  (CW)  The word translated as "that" means "from here" "from there" or "this/that thing/person here/there." It often  comes after the noun, emphasizing it, with the sense of "this one."

your  own - (WF) - The  "your own" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed. When it has a verb, the subject of the sentence is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "out of"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  MW - Missing Word -- The word "out of" is not shown in the English translation. "out of" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from." It is not the word form  usually translated as "of."

idea-- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "idea" in the Greek source.  .

or -- "Or" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "or" but serves as "than" in a comparison. The same word could also be the exclamation "hi" or the adverb meaning "in truth."

did -- This English helping verb is used to create questions, commands, negative statements, and smooth word flow in translation from Greek

others --  The word translated as "others" means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further."  In a series, this means "one...another." -- The "another" here is feminine, making it clear that it refers to another woman more clearly than the English translation. - - The "others" here is masculine, plural, making it clear that it refers to a group of people.

talk - The word translated as "talk" means "to say" and "to speak." It is one of the two most common words translated "speak," "say" and "tell," but it has more a sense of addressing and proclaiming.

to -- This word "to" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object.

you -- The word for "you" is the indirect object form of the singular, second-person pronoun in the form of an indirect object, which usually requires a preposition in English, like "to you."

about -   The Greek word translated as "about" means "around" when referring to a place, but in referring to a subject, it means "about," "concerning," "on account of," and "in regard to." This is the way Jesus usually uses it. It is not the word form usually translated as "of."

me? -- "Me" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."  As a genitive object of a preposition, as here, it means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

Ἀπὸ [190 verses]​(prep) "From" is apo, a preposition of separation which means "from" or "away from" from when referring to place or motion, "from" or "after" when referring to time, "from" as an origin or cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done.  Usually takes the genitive object. -

σεαυτοῦ (pro 2nd masc sg nom) [3 verses] (pro 2nd masc sg nom) "Yourself" is  seautou, which means "of yourself." It is the reflexive form of the second-person pronoun. 

σὺ  [36  verses](pron 2nd sg nom) "Thee/you" is su , which means "you" in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject

τοῦτο [93 verses](adj sg neut acc) "That" is touto, which means "from here," "from there," "this [thing] there," or "that [person] here."

λέγεις [264 verses](verb 2nd sg pres ind act ) "Sayest" is lego, which means "to recount," "to tell over," "to say," "to speak," "to teach," "to mean," "boast of," "tell of," "recite," nominate," and "command." When used with an object is has the sense of "call by name."  It has a secondary meaning "pick out," "choose for oneself," "pick up," "gather," "count," and "recount." A less common word that is spelled the same means "to lay," "to lay asleep" and "to lull asleep." Since this is the most common such word Jesus uses, perhaps translating it consistently as "say" works best.

[92 verses](conj/adv)  "Or" is e, which is a particle meaning "either," "or," or "than." OR (exclam) "Or" is e which is an exclamation meaning "hi!" OR (adv) "Or" is e, which is an adverb meaning "in truth" and "of a surety."

ἄλλοι [34 verses](adj pl masc nom) "Others" is allos, which means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further," "of other sort," "other than what is," "untrue," "unreal," "other than right," "wrong," "bad," "unworthy," [with an article] "the rest," "all besides," and [in series] "one...another."

εἶπόν [162 verses] (verb 3rd pl aor ind act ) "Did tell" is eipon, which means "to speak," "to say," "to recite," "to address," "to mention," "to name," "to proclaim," "to plead," "to promise," and "to offer."  This is the second most common word Jesus uses for this idea. Perhaps translating it consistently as "tell" would work.

σοὶ [81 verses](pron 2nd sg dat) "You" is soi which is the singular, second-person pronoun, "you," in the form of an indirect pronoun.

περὶ [73 verses](prep)  "Of" is peri, which means "round about (Place)," "around," "about," "concerning," "on account of," "in regard to," "before," "above," "beyond," and "all around." With the genitive, "round about" of place, "for" or "about" something," with verbs of knowing, "about" and "concerning," "before or "beyond," of superiority With the dative, "round about" of clothes, "around" in holding, "for" or "about" a struggle, "on account of" and "by reason of" a cause. With the accusative, "around" in movement, caring and generally of relationships "about,"  "about" of time. As an adverb "around," "about," also, "near, by," and "exceedingly" in relationships.

ἐμοῦ; [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

Related Verses: 

Front Page Date: 

Jan 17 2023