Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels

Spoken to
audience

After Jesus finishes the parable of the lost coin.

KJV

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

NIV

Luke 15:10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

LISTENERS HEARD

This is why I tell you, a joy arises in front of the messengers of the Divine upon one mistake-maker changing his mind.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The verb translated as "is" means something coming into being or happens. The verb "is" indicates as stable state. This verb indicates a change. I translate it as "arise" instead of the more cumbersome "comes into being."  

The word translated as "in the presence" is an unusual preposition both in Jesus's verses and and in Greek. 

In repeating the theme of joy, this verse connects the idea of "angels" with the idea of "heaven" in Luke 15:7. Does this change if we translate "angels" as "messengers" and "heaven" as "sky" in the sense of "the higher universe"?

MY TAKE

Angels are always looking for more joy in their lives. 

GREEK ORDER

οὕτως,       λέγω ὑμῖν, γίνεται χαρὰ ἐνώπιον   τῶν ἀγγέλων       τοῦ θεοῦ 
This is why I tell  you,  arises    a joy  in front of the  messengers of the Divine 

ἐπὶ     ἑνὶ  ἁμαρτωλῷ       μετανοοῦντι.
upon one mistake-maker changing his mind.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
7

Likewise, I say unto you, there is(CW) joy in the presence of the angels of (MWthe) God over one sinner(CW) that(IW) repenteth(CW,WF).

  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "is" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation. 
  • UW --Untranslated Word -- The word "angels" means "messengers." It is an untranslated Greek word adopted into English.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sinners" adds a moral condemnation that the Greek word does not have.
  •  IW - Inserted Word -- The "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  •  CW --Confusing Word -- The "repented" does not capture the word's specific meaning. 
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "changing his mind”.

In the same way, I tell you, there is(CW) rejoicing(WFin the presence of the angels of (MWthe) God over one sinner(CW) who(IW) repentsCW,WF).

 

  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "is" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation. 
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a participle but a noun.
  • UW --Untranslated Word -- The word "angels" means "messengers." It is an untranslated Greek word adopted into English.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sinners" adds a moral condemnation that the Greek word does not have.
  •  IW - Inserted Word -- The "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  •  CW --Confusing Word -- The "repented" does not capture the word's specific meaning. 
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "changing his mind”.
EACH WORD of KJV

Likewise,  -- The word translated in KJV as "likewise" is in its adverbial form, so it means "in this manner”, "so”, "so much” or "so excessively”.

 I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

say -- The word translated as "I say" is the most common word that means "to say”, "to tell” and "to speak”,  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of”. It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself”.

unto -- This word "unto" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English, but the translator must decide which preposition to use: a "to" as an indirect object.

you,  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you", "for you”, etc.

there -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

is -- (CW) The word translated as "is" means "to become", that is, to enter into a new state. When applied to events, this word means "to happen”, "to occur" or "take place”. For things, it can be "to be produced". When the participle takes a predicate, the sense is "coming into" something. The form of the verb's object can indicate the time or to whom it "happens”. This is not the specific meaning of the word in this situation. 

joy -- "Joy" is from a word that means "joy" and "delight”. More about Christ's use of emotions in this article.

 in the presence -- The Greek term translated as "in the presence" is not used outside of Luke except once in John. It appears here for the first time in Jesus's words here. It means "in front of".

of -- This word "of"  comes from the possessive form (genitive case) of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession. However, it can also mean "belonging to”, "part of”, "which is”, "than" (in comparisons), or  "for”, "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs. In reference to time, it could instead be translated as "during”, "at” or "within." When this form or word is the object of the verb "to be" the sense is "belongs to," so the sense of this word in these situations is "to."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

angels  -- (UW)  "Angels" is a noun meaning "messenger" and "envoys" though it became to mean "semi-divine beings" in later use from its use in the NT. Jesus uses this word to describe the means by which Jesus communicates to us and our thoughts. 

of -- This word comes from the genitive case of the following word(s) that required the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession, but it can also mean "belonging to," "part of", "which is", "than" (in comparisons), or  "for", "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs. 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one”. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this”, "that", "these", "those"). See this article for more.  

God. -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity". It is introduced with an article, so "the God”. Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

over  -- The word translated as "over" means "on”, "over”, "upon”, "for”, "against”, "before”, "after”, "during”, "by", "in the case of”.

one -- The Greek word translated as "one " means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single”, and "one and the same”. As in English, it can be used as a pronoun, meaning a single person.

sinner -- (CW) "Sinners" is word that means "erroneous" or "erring”. It also means "of bad character" but with the sense of being a slave or low-born not evil. Only in biblical translations is this term given the sense of wickedness. More about the translation issues regarding "sin" here

that -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

 repenteth.-- (CW, WF) The word translated as "repent" has nothing to do with sin or, generally, with religion or asking for forgiveness. The Greek word translated as "repent" has a primary meaning of understanding something after the fact, with the sense of seeing it is too late. Its specific meaning is to "understand afterward”, as seeing the truth after a mistake is made. From this idea, it comes to mean to change your mind, shifting your perspective. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "changing his mind”.

EACH WORD of NIV

In the same way,  -- The word translated in KJV as "In the same way, " is in its adverbial form, so it means "in this manner”, "so,” "so much", or "so excessively".

 I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

tell -- The word translated as "I tell" is the most common word that means "to say”, "to tell” and "to speak”, but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of”. It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself”.

you,  -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you", "for you”, etc.

there -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

is -- (CW) The word translated as "is" means "to become”, that is, to enter into a new state. When applied to events, this word means "to happen”, "to occur” or "take place”. For things, it can be "to be produced”. When the participle takes a predicate, the sense is "coming into" something. The form of the verb's object can indicate the time or to whom it "happens”. This is not the specific meaning of the word in this situation. 

rejoicing -- (WF) "Rejoicing " is from a word that means "joy" and "delight”. More about Christ's use of emotions in this article. This is not a participle but a noun. 

 in the presence -- The Greek term translated as "in the presence" is not used outside of Luke except once in John. It appears here for the first time in Jesus's words here. It means "in front of".

of -- This word "of"  comes from the possessive form (genitive case) of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession. However, it can also mean "belonging to”, "part of”, "which is”, "than" (in comparisons), or  "for”, "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs. In reference to time, it could instead be translated as "during”, "at” or "within”. When this form or word is the object of the verb "to be" the sense is "belongs to”, so the sense of this word in these situations is "to”.

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the”, which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this”, "that”, "these”, "those") than the English "the”. See this article for more. 

angels  -- (UW)  "Angels" is a noun meaning "messenger" and "envoys" though it came to mean "semi-divine beings" in later use from its use in the NT. Jesus uses this word to describe the means by which Jesus communicates to us and our thoughts. 

of -- This word comes from the genitive case of the following word(s) that required the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession, but it can also mean "belonging to”, "part of", "which is", "than" (in comparisons), or  "for", "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs. 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one”, The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those"). See this article for more.  

God. -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God”. Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

over  -- The word translated as "over" means "on”, "over”, "upon”, "for”, "against”, "before”, "after”, "during”, "by", "in the case of”.

one -- The Greek word translated as "one " means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single", and "one and the same”. As in English, it can be used as a pronoun, meaning a single person.

sinner -- (CW) "Sinners" is word that means "erroneous" or "erring." It also means "of bad character" but with the sense of being a slave or low-born not evil. Only in biblical translations is this term given the sense of wickedness. More about the translation issues regarding "sin" here

who -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

repents -- (CW, WF) The word translated as "repent" has nothing to do with sin or, generally, with religion or asking for forgiveness. The Greek word translated as "repent" has a primary meaning of understanding something after the fact, with the sense of seeing it is too late. Its specific meaning is to "understand afterward”, as seeing the truth after a mistake is made. From this idea, it comes to mean to change your mind, shifting your perspective.This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "changing his mind”.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

οὕτως, [54 verses](adv) "So" is houtos, an adverb that means "in this way”, "therefore”, "so much" ("for" w/gen.), "to such an extent”, "so very”, "so excessively" and "that is why”. With an imperative "just”, "without more ado”. At beginning of a story, "once upon a time”.

λέγω (verb 1st sg pres ind act) "I tell" is [264 verses](3rd pl pres ind act ) "They say" is lego, which means "to recount”, "to tell over”, "to say”, "to speak”, "to teach”, "to mean”, "boast of”, "tell of”, "recite”, “nominate” and "command". When used with an object is has the sense of "call by name”.  It has a secondary meaning "pick out”, "choose for oneself”, "pick up”, "gather”, "count" and "recount”. A less common word that is spelled the same means "to lay”, "to lay asleep" and "to lull asleep". This word is more about making a statement than participating in a discussion. Translating is as "stated" might distinguish it better. When two accusative objects are used, the sense is  "say of him this”, or "call him this". The form Jesus uses to describe his own speaking can be either indicative, "I say/tell" or subjunctive, "I should/could say/tell”.

ὑμῖν [289 verses](pron 2nd pl dat) "Unto you"  is humin the plural form of the pronoun of the second person in the indirect object form, "to you”. As the object of a preposition, this form implies no movement, but in a fixed position or events occur at a specified time or while the action was being performed. With the "to be”, it acts as a possessive, "yours”.-- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you”,"for you", etc.

γίνεται [117 verses](verb 3rd sg pres ind mp ) "There is" is ginomai, which means "to become”, "to come into being”, "to happen”, of things "to be produced", of events "happen", (passive) "take place”, "come to pass", "to be engaged in”, math "to be multiplied into”, "become one of”, "turn into”. It means changing into a new state of being. When the participle takes a predicate, the sense is "coming into" something. This verb also has a number of special meanings with different prepositions. It is the complementary opposite of the verb "to be" (eimi) which indicates existence in the same state. A genitive object indicates the time during which it "happens" or a date on which it "falls”. A dative object indicates to whom it happens. 

χαρὰ  [14verses](noun sg fem nom) "Joy" is chara, which means "joy" and "delight”.

ἐνώπιον  [8 verses] (prep) "Before" is from enopionwhich means " facing" and "to the front”.

τῶν [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones”.

ἀγγέλων [25 verses] (noun pl masc/fem gen) "Angels"  is from aggelos, (aggelos) which means "messenger" and "envoy”. "Angels" is aggelos, which means "messenger" and "envoys" though it became to mean "semi-divine beings" in later use.

τοῦ   [821 verses] (article  sg masc gen)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"), which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones”.

θεοῦ. [144 verses]( noun sg masc gen ) "God" is theos, which means "God”, "divine” and "Deity". -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

ἐπὶ [138 verses](prep) "On" is from epi, which means "on”, "upon”, "at”, "by", "before”, "across”, "for” and "against”. With a noun in the possessive, genitive, it means "upon", "on" but not necessarily of Place, "by (of persons)”, "deep (with numbers)", "in the presence of”, "towards”, "in the time of” and "over (referring to a person of authority)". With a noun indirect object, dative, it means of place: "upon”, "on” or "over”, of people: "against (in a hostile sense)”, regarding a situation: "towards" or "in reference to”, of an accumulation: "upon”, "after”, "addition to” and "besides”, of position: "after”, "behind”, "in dependence upon” and "in the power of”, of time: "by” and "after” and, in a causal sense: "of the occasion or cause”, "for a person, an end, or purpose," "on condition that”, and "for" (a price).  With the objective noun, an accusative, it means of place: "upon or on to a height”, "up to”, "as far as”, "a little way", "a little”, "towards”, "to”, in hostile sense: "against", of extension: "over”, "over (a space)”, of time: "for”, "during”, "up to" or "till”, in a causal sense: "of (the object)", “for (this purpose)”, "as regards”, "after”, "according to" and "by (this cause)”. With verbs of perceiving, observing, and judging, it means "in the case of”.

ἑνὶ [85 verses](noun sg masc dat) "One"  is heis, which means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single" and "one and the same”. This noun/adjective is irregular, having a number of forms depending on gender and case. It is always singular.  

ἁμαρτωλῷ [15 verses](adj sg masc/fem dat) "Sinner"  is hamartolos, which means "erroneous" or "erring”. It also means "of bad character" but with the sense of being a slave or low-born not evil. 

μετανοοῦντι. [9 verses](part sg pres act masc dat) "That repenteth" is from  metanoeo, which literally means "to perceive afterward”, "to perceive too late”, "to change one's mind”, "to change one's purpose” and "to repent”.

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