Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Spoken to
Apostles

Jesus says this to his followers after answering the Pharisees who asked when the kingdom of God shall come. 

KJV

Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

NIV

Luke 17:25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

LISTENERS HEARD

First, however, it needed him to go through many thing and to be rejected by this type here.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The word translated as "must" means "it/he needed him". The needed actions are infinitives. The "suffer" means "to go through many things". The phrase "this generation" means "by this type here". 

MY TAKE

Jesus saw his suffering as something needed that he must go through. 

GREEK ORDER

 

πρῶτον δὲ           δεῖ            αὐτὸν πολλὰ        παθεῖν             καὶ ἀποδοκιμασθῆναι 
First,      however, it needed him     many thing to go through and to be rejected 

ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης.
by   this type      here.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
9

But first must(CW) he(WF) suffer(WF,CW) many things, and be rejected(WF) of(CW) this(CW) (MW) generation(CW).

  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "must" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a subject but an object.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "suffer" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to go through".
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The translation of suffer is more specific than the word's more general meaning
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "rejected" is not an verb but an infinitive, "to be rejected".
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "of" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This word doesn't mean "this" in this situation. 
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation. 
  • CW --Confusing Word -- "Generation" is more specific than the word's more general meaning.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
8
But first he(WF)  must(CW) he (MW) suffer(WF,CW) many things, and be rejected(WF) by this(CW) (MW) generation(CW).
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "must" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a subject but an object.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "suffer" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to go through".
  • CW --Confusing Word -- "Suffer's" translation is more specific than the word's more general meaning
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "rejected" is not an verb but an infinitive, "to be rejected".
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This word doesn't mean "this" in this situation. 
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "generation" is not shown in the English translation. 
  • CW --Confusing Word -- "Generation" is more specific than the word's more general meaning.
EACH WORD of KJV

But -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but", "yet", "however" and "on the other hand". It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

first  -- The word translated as "first" takes a lot of different types of "first" meanings from its context. Here, it is technically an adjective but it plays the role of the English adverb "initially."

must -- (CW)  The Greek verb translated as "must" is a special verb that means "it/he/she needed," and "there was a need". It is not a helping verb like we have in English but an active verb. It is always singular, 3rd person, past tense. Its form is fixed and, when it refers to a verb, that verb's form is an infinitive like we say "he needed to go," but the subject is not separate from the verb.  

he -- (WF) The word translated as "him" is the Greek adjective that acts like our third-person pronoun. The form is the third person, singular, masculine as a direct object of a verb or preposition.  This is not a subject but an object. 

suffer  -- (WF, CW) "Suffer" is from a verb that means "to have done to one", "to be treated so", "to go through", "to pass" and "to come to be in a state". It can be used to describe both good and bad things happening to one. It can be translated as "pass through" as well, because it is the verb form of the noun translated as "the fast of Passover". When a body part is the subject the sense is "to suffer"  that or "to be ill" in that part. Our word "undergo" captures this idea better. This translation is more specific than the word's meaning.  This word is an infinitive required by the "needs" above, not an active verb. 

many -- The word translated as "many" means many in number, great in power or worth, and large in size.

things  - There is no word, "things", in the Greek source, but this word comes from the neuter, plural form of the previous adjective.

 and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and", but it also is used to add emphasis.

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

rejected -- (WF) "Rejected" is a verb that means specifically "reject on scrutiny", "reject as unfit or unworthy" and "reject for want of qualifications".  Referring to a stone used to build a wall, we would say "reject as unfitting".

of --- (CW) The word translated as "of" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from". It is not the word form usually translated as "of". Referring to time, it means "from" and "after". 

this -  (CW)The "this" is a pronoun that can mean "this" or "that", "here" or "there", the nearer or the further, depending on usage. When the modified noun already has an article, it meaning is "here". This word doesn't mean "this" in this situation. 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these" and "those"). See this article for more. 

generation. -- (CW) The word translated as "generation" means "race", "offspring", "class", "sort", "type", "generation", "age" and "kind", The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type. Jesus uses it to refer to a type of person, specifically those like the Pharisees. See this article. This is a feminine noun so it is slightly insulting when applied to men. There is also a neuter form the means the same things. This translation "generation" is more specific than the word's general meaning. 

EACH WORD of NIV
But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

But -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but", "yet", "however" and "on the other hand". It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

first  -- The word translated as "first" takes a lot of different types of "first" meanings from its context. Here, it is technically an adjective but it plays the role of the English adverb "initially".

he -- (WF) The word translated as "him" is the Greek adjective that acts like our third-person pronoun. The form is the third person, singular, masculine as a direct object of a verb or preposition.  This is not a subject but an object. 

must -- (CW)  The Greek verb translated as "must" is a special verb that means "it/he/she needed" and "there was a need". It is not a helping verb like we have in English but an active verb. It is always singular, 3rd person, past tense. Its form is fixed and, when it refers to a verb, that verb's form is an infinitive like we say "he needed to go", but the subject is not separate from the verb.  

suffer  -- (WF, CW) "Suffer" is from a verb that means "to have done to one", "to be treated so", "to go through", "to pass" and "to come to be in a state". It can be used to describe both good and bad things happening to one. It can be translated as "pass through" as well, because it is the verb form of the noun translated as "the fast of Passover." When it a body part is the subject the sense is "to suffer" that or "to be ill" in that part. Our word "undergo" captures this idea better. This translation is more specific than the word's meaning.  This word is an infinitive required by the "needs" above, not an active verb. 

many -- The word translated as "many" means many in number, great in power or worth, and large in size.

things  - There is no word, "things", in the Greek source, but this word comes from the neuter, plural form of the previous adjective.

 and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and", but it also is used to add emphasis.

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

rejected -- (WF) "Rejected" is a verb that means specifically "reject on scrutiny", "reject as unfit or unworthy" and "reject for want of qualifications". Referring to a stone used to build a wall, we would say "reject as unfitting".

by --- The word translated as "by" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from". It is not the word form usually translated as "of". Referring to time, it means "from" and "after". 

this -  (CW)The "this" is a pronoun that can mean "this" or "that", "here" or "there", the nearer or the further, depending on usage. When the modified noun already has an article, it meaning is "here". This word doesn't mean "this" in this situation. 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", and "those"). See this article for more. 

generation. -- (CW) The word translated as "generation" means "race", "offspring", "class", "sort", "type", "generation", "age" and "kind".  The sense is a "type" or a "specimen" of a particular type.  Jesus uses it to refer to a type of person, specifically those like the Pharisees. See this article. This is a feminine noun so it is slightly insulting when applied to men. There is also a neuter form the means the same things. This translation "generation" is more specific than the word's general meaning. 

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

πρῶτον [41 verses](adj sg neut nom/acc or adj sg masc acc) "First" is protos. In place, this means "before", "in front" and, as a noun, "the foremost". Of time, it means "former", "earlier" and, as a noun, "the initial". In order, it means "the first". In math, it means the prime numbers. Of rank or degree, it means "superior" or, as a noun, "the highest" or "the best".

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "But" is de which means "but", "yet", "however" and "on the other hand". It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of an indirect cause ("so") and a condition ("if"). In an  "if" (εἰ) clause or temporal "when" (ὅταν) clause the sense is "if/when... then". In a series begun by men, it means "on the other hand". In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet". After an interruption, "so then". It can also be an explanation of cause ("so") and a condition ("if").  In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet". After an interruption, "so then". 

δεῖ [28 verses](verb 3rd sg imperf ind act) "Must" is dei, which means "it needs" and "there is need". The object it takes is an infinitive. It is the past tense. 

αὐτὸν [124 verses](pron/adj sg masc acc) "Him/It" is auton, is the masculine, accusative case of the third-person, singular adjective that is used as a pronoun. Masculine pronouns can refer to things as well as people, so it can be it". The word also means "the same" and "of one's own accord". An accusative object of a preposition indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement. Event may show the amount of time.  However, masculine pronouns refer to masculine nouns, not just masculine people so this word can mean "it" as well as "he". As a preposition's object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement. Events may show the amount of time. 

πολλὰ [61 verses](adj pl neut nom/acc) "Many things" is polys, which means "many" (in number), "great" (in size or power or worth), and "large" (of space). As an adverb, it means "far", "very much", "a great way" and "long". 

παθεῖν  [8 verses](verb aor inf act) "Suffer"is pascho, which means "to have something happen to one", "to go through", "to have done to one", "to be treated so" and "to come to be in a state". The noun form means "to be passive" but as an adjective, "suffering". 

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and" or "also". After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also". Also used to give emphasis, "even", "also" and "just". 

ἀποδοκιμασθῆναι [5 verses](verb aor inf pass) "Be rejected" is apodokimazô, which means specifically "reject on scrutiny", "reject as unfit or unworthy" and "reject for want of qualifications". 

ἀπὸ [190 verses]​(prep) "Of" is apo, a preposition of separation which means "from" or "away from" from when referring to place or motion, "from" or "after" when referring to time, "from" as an origin or cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done. Referring to time, it means "from" and "after".  Usually takes the genitive object. As a prefix, means "asunder", "completing", "ceasing", "back again" and "by way of abuse".

τῆς [821 verses] (article sg fem acc/gen)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones". 

γενεᾶς [19 verses] (noun sg fem acc/gen) "Generation" is genea, which means "race", "offspring", "class", "sort", "type", "generation", "age" and "kind". It is a form of the word from which we get the scientific word,"genus".

ταύτης [96 verses] (adj sg fem gen) "This" is tauta, which is a referring pronoun meaning "these", "this", "that" and "here". It can mean the nearer or the further depending on usage. 

parallel comparison

This verse is a restatement of the earlier Luke 9:22.

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