Luke 17:37 Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles

Spoken to
Apostles

Jesus's followers ask him where the people taken are taken.

KJV

Luke 17:37 Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

NIV

Luke 17:37 Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

LISTENERS HEARD

Where also the vultures will be gathered together upon the body there. 

LOST IN TRANSLATION

This verse has the feeling of being a common folk saying, which perhaps it was. It is not clear if this verse is positive or negative. It doesn't say a "dead" body. The word is different than the "carcass" used in Matthew. The "body" is a neuter word that can be either a subject (without a verb) or the object of the verb, which works better here. 

The word translated as "vultures" means "eagles," but also means "omen." The Hebrew word translated as "eagle" means both an eagle and a type of vulture.   The eagle was the standard used by both the Romans and the Persian.  Oddly, the Old Testament doesn't treat vultures or eagles as carrion eaters in battle fields or plagues. 

The verb translated as "will be gathered together"(KJV) and "will gathered"(NIV) has a prefix that is ignored and make complete sense of this verse.  This verb means "will be gathered together upon it." What are they gathered upon? The body. I assume the apostles asked where the bodies will be taken, but they could have been asking where this taking and leaving takes place. 

GREEK ORDER

 

Ὅπου τὸ σῶμα  ἐκεῖ   καὶ  οἱ   ἀετοὶ      ἐπισυναχθήσονται.
Where the body there also the vultures  will be gathered upon 

Wheresoever the body is, (OS) thither will the eagles be gathered(CW) together.

  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek missing word "also" after "body" is in the source we use today.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "gathered."

 

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6

Where there(IW) is a(WW) dead(IW) body, (MW) there the vultures will gathered(CW,MV).”

  • IW - Inserted Word-- The first "there" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "a" should be something more like "the."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The first "dead" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "also"  after "body" is not shown in the English translation.  
  • WV --Wrong Voice - The "gathered" here is translated as active but it is passive.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "gathered."
EACH WORD of KJV

Wheresoever -- The word translated as "where"  means "somewhere," "anywhere," "wherever," and "where."

 the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

 body -- The Greek word translated as "body" means a physical body, either living or dead. It also refers to the "whole" of ourselves (see this article).

is -- There is no verb "to be" here in the Greek. However, when nouns, pronouns or adjectives appear in the form of a subject without a verb, the verb "to be" can be assumed.

missing "and"  -- (OS) The untranslated word as "also" is used as the conjunction"and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

thither -The word translated as "thither" means "there" or "in that place" but it also means "the intelligible world," that is, the world we understand. It refers to a place much more strongly than our word "there" which can be a simple helper to introduce a verb of being. In Greek, the verb used alone has the sense of "there is" or "there are."

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates the verb is in the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

 the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

eagles - Eagles" is from the Greek word for "eagle," "bird of omen," or "omen." It is a Greek word, but this word was used in the Septuagint to translate the Hebrew word for "eagle" (nesher), which means both "eagle" and "vulture." Among the Jews, it was forbidden to eat eagles, along with buzzards and vultures, so they were grouped among carrion birds. Some uses of this word, such as Micah 1:16, which refers to the baldness of eagles, clearly referring to vultures, which are bald. (Bald eagles, of course, are not bald but have white feathers on their adult heads and were not known in the ancient world.) While there are positive characteristics of eagles in Jewish writing, based on their size and strength. This view of eagles in the West is positive, but this comes from Greek and Roman culture, which had a very positive view of the bird, but they also saw eagles as a bird of omen.

 be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

gathered -- (CW) This is not the common word usually translated as "gathered" but a compound form of that word meaning "gather upon" or "collected over," like we would say "gathered up." This is not the word usually translated as "gathered." 

together. -- - This completes the meaning of the verb root. It is from the  root prefix not the verb's prefix.

EACH WORD of NIV

Where -- The word translated as "where"  means "somewhere," "anywhere," "wherever," and "where."

there -- -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source

is -- There is no verb "to be" here in the Greek. However, when nouns, pronouns or adjectives appear in the form of a subject without a verb, the verb "to be" can be assumed.

 a -- (WW) The word translated as "a" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.  This word doesn't mean "a."  

dead -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source

 body -- The Greek word translated as "body" means a physical body, either living or dead. It also refers to the "whole" of ourselves (see this article).

missing "also"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "also" is used as the conjunction"and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

there -The word translated as "the " means "there" or "in that place" but it also means "the intelligible world," that is, the world we understand. It refers to a place much more strongly than our word "there" which can be a simple helper to introduce a verb of being. In Greek, the verb used alone has the sense of "there is" or "there are."

there the vultures will gather.

 the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

eagles - Eagles" is from the Greek word for "eagle," "bird of omen," or "omen." It is a Greek word, but this word was used in the Septuagint to translate the Hebrew word for "eagle" (nesher), which means both "eagle" and "vulture." Among the Jews, it was forbidden to eat eagles, along with buzzards and vultures, so they were grouped among carrion birds. Some uses of this word, such as Micah 1:16, which refers to the baldness of eagles, clearly referring to vultures, which are bald. (Bald eagles, of course, are not bald but have white feathers on their adult heads and were not known in the ancient world.) While there are positive characteristics of eagles in Jewish writing, based on their size and strength. This view of eagles in the West is positive, but this comes from Greek and Roman culture, which had a very positive view of the bird, but they also saw eagles as a bird of omen.

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates the verb is in the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

gathered -- (CW, WV) This is not the common word usually translated as "gathered" but a compound form of that word meaning "gather upon" or "collected over," like we would say "gathered up." This is not the word usually translated as "gathered." The verb here is translated as active but it is passive. 

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Ὅπου  [32 verses](adv)  "Wheresoever" "Where" is hopou, which means "somewhere," "anywhere," "wherever," and "where." 

τὸ [821 verses](article sg neut nom/acc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones."  

σῶμά [17 verses](noun sg neut nom/acc)"Body" is soma, which means "body," "dead body," "the living body," "animal body," "person," "human being," "any corporeal substance," "metallic substance," "figure of three dimensions [math]," "solid," "whole [of a thing]," "frame [of a thing]," "the body of the proof," "a body of writings." and "text of a document." Like our word "body" it has special meanings such as "body" of proof and the "body" of a document. It is the physical substance of things, the body of men and animals or of heavenly bodies or groups of people. 

ἐκεῖ: [33 verses](adv) "Yonder place" is ekei, which means "there," "in that place," and in philosophy means "the intelligible world." -

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

οἱ [821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones."  

ἀετοί. [2 verses](noun pl masc nom) "Eagles" is aetos, which means "eagle," (which was considered a bird of omen) "eagle as a standard (of the Roman legions)," and "omen."  

ἐπισυναχθήσονται [5 verses] (verb 3rd pl fut ind pass) "Gather together"  is episynago, which means "to collect and bring to a place." It also means to "bring into" a conversation or to "infer" or "conclude."  -  

 

parallel comparison

This version has a word added and another subtracted to make it look more like Matthew 24:28, which this is clearly a version. The word "body" is different than the "carcass" used in Matthew.

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