Luke 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves

Spoken to
audience

Jesus tells a parable of the vine-dressers to the crowd. 

KJV

Luke 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

NIV

Luke 20:14  But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. ‘This is the heir,’ they said. ‘Let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’

LISTENERS HEARD

Seeing, however, him, the vine-dressers debated agreeing with one another saying, "This is the heir. We might destroy him so that the inheritance might become ours.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The translation from the Greek is interesting and fairly straightforward, but the biblical translators really didn't like Jesus's grammar and vocabulary, "adjusting" either the form or meaning of every word. 

The first interesting words are where the vine-dressers "argued/debated agreeing with each other". The KJV changes the verb meaning "argue" or "debate" when not referring to accounting to "reasoned", and the NIV changes it to "talked the matter over", neither of which gives the right image. The preposition that the KJV translates as "among" and the NIV ignores entirely takes its meaning mostly from the verb but one of the meanings is "agreeing with", which works best. The word translated as "themselves" in the KJV and ignored in the NIV is not the ordinary "themselves", but the word meaning "one another".  

The punchline sentence is difficult to translate into English because the subject, "inheritance" comes last. English works better with the subject before the verb. However, what they really said was "ours becomes the inheritance". This is somewhat true, but they didn't know what they were about to inherit. 

MY TAKE

Life doesn't work out the way evil people expect, and they call it "unfair."

GREEK ORDER

 

ἰδόντες δὲ           αὐτὸν οἱ   γεωργοὶ         διελογίζοντο πρὸς               ἀλλήλους     λέγοντες 
Seeing, however, him,    the vine-dressers debated         agreeing with one another saying, 

Οὗτός ἐστιν   κληρονόμος: ἀποκτείνωμεν      αὐτόν, ἵνα        ἡμῶν γένηται               κληρονομία
"This    is      the heir.              We might destroy him      so that  ours  might become the inheritance

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
8

But when(IW) the husbandmen saw(WF) him, they reasoned(CW) among themselves(CW), saying, This is the heir: come(OS), let(WW) us(WF) kill him, that the inheritance may be(WW) ours.

  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "when" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "seeing".
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "reasoned" doesn't precisely mean "reasoned".
  • CW "Themselves" is not from the word usually translated as "themselves". It is from a special adjective that means "one another".
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "come" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- This verb form doesn't take a "let". It should be "might" or "should".
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an object but the subject from the first-person, plural form of the verb.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "be" should be something more like "become".
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
12
But when(IW) the tenants(WW) saw him, [they talked the matter over(PP3)]. ‘This is the heir,’ they(IW) said(WF). ‘let(WW)'s(WF) kill him, and the inheritance will(WW be(WW) ours.’
 
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "when" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "seeing".
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "tenants" should be something more like "vine-dresser".
  • PP3 -- Paraphrase - The phrase "debated with one another" exists in the source but "talked the matter over" doesn't.
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "they" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "saying".
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "and" should be something more like "so that".
  • WW --Wrong Word -- This verb form  doesn't take a "let". It should be "might" or "should".
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an object but the subject from the first-person, plural form of the verb.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- This "will" doesn't indicate the future tense.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "be" should be something more like "become".
EACH WORD of KJV

But -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but", "however", and "on the other hand". Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

when -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the",. which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

husbandmen  - The word translated as "husbandmen" means to those "tilling the ground" and from that, "vine dresser", "gardener" and "peasant".

saw -- (WF) The verb translated as "saw" means "to see" but it is used like we use the word "see" to mean "to know" or "to perceive". This word begins the verse in Greek and is in the form of an adjective, "seeing", not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective.

him -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. 

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

reasoned --  (CW) The word translated as "reasoned" means primarily to "balance account" but Jesus uses it to mean "consider" or "debate". It is not a common word. It is the root word for our word "dialogue" meaning "two calculating".  Its root word is the Greek word logos that means "calculation" or "reasoning" that is usually translated as "word" in the NT. More about the meaning of this word in this article. This word doesn't precisely mean "reasoned".

among -- The word translated as "among" means "towards", "in front of", "by reason of" (for), and "against".

themselves -- (CW) The "themselves" here is an uncommon word for Christ, and primarily it means "one another". 

saying -- The word translated as "saying" is the most common word that means "to say" and "to speak", but it also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself". Christ usually uses this word to refer to his own speaking or teaching.

This  -- "This" is translated from a Greek word that means "this", "that", "the nearer".

is  -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

heir -- "Heir" is from a noun which means "heir" and "heir apparent".

come -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used. 

let  -- (WW) This verb form  doesn't take a "let". It should be "might" or "should".  

 us --  (WF) This is not an object but the subject from the first-person, plural form of the verb. 

kill -- "Kill" is translated from a Greek word that means "destroy" more than just "kill" because the base word means "slay". The Greek source has the sense of "kill off", that is, destroy in a more thorough way. When we talk about "destroying" someone, we use it to mean destroying their reputation, the strength of their spirit and ideas as well as physically killing them. It is not in the form normally translated as "let us" but a form of possibility: "we might destroy".

him -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.

that -- The word translated as "that" is an adverb or a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause "there", "where" and "in order that".

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

inheritance -- "The inheritance" is from a noun that means "inheritance", "property" and "possession". It is from the same root as the word for "heir" above.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

be -- (WW) The word translated as "be" means "to become," that is, to enter into a new state. When applied to events, this word means "to happen", "to occur" or "take place". Sometimes, "arises" works best when the subject comes into being. For things, it can be "to be produced". When the participle takes a predicate, the sense is "coming into" something. The form of the verb's object can indicate the time or to whom it "happens". 

ours -- "Ours" is the plural object form of the first-personal pronoun.

EACH WORD of NIV

But -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but", "however" and "on the other hand". Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

when -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the" which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

tenants - (WW) The word translated as "tenants" means to those "tilling the ground", and from that, "vine dresser", "gardener" and "peasant". This word doesn't mean "tenants".  

saw -- (WF) The verb translated as "saw" means "to see" but it is used like we use the word "see" to mean "to know" or "to perceive". This word begins the verse in Greek and is in the form of an adjective, "seeing", not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective.

him -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

talked the matter over -- (PP) The Greek  words meaning "debated with one another" here are not translated but instead their assumed meaning is paraphrased into different words. The word translated as "reasoned" means primarily to "balance account" but Jesus uses it to mean "consider" or "debate". It is not a common word. It is the root word for our word "dialogue" meaning "two calculating".  Its root word is the Greek word logos that means "calculation" or "reasoning" that is usually translated as "word" in the NT. More about the meaning of this word in this article. This word doesn't precisely mean "reasoned". 

This  -- "This" is translated from a Greek word that means "this", "that", "the nearer".

is  -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

heir -- "Heir" is from a noun which means "heir" and "heir apparent".

they  -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source

said-- (WF) The word translated as "said" is the most common word that means "to say" and "to speak", but it also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself". Christ usually uses this word to refer to his own speaking or teaching. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "saying". 

Let  -- (WW) This verb form doesn't take a "let". It should be "might" or "should".  

 's -- (WF)  This is not an object but the subject from the first-person, plural form of the verb. 

kill -- "Kill" is translated from a Greek word that means "destroy" more than just "kill" because the base word means "slay". The Greek source has the sense of "kill off", that is, destroy in a more thorough way. When we talk about "destroying" someone, we use it to mean destroying their reputation, the strength of their spirit and ideas as well as physically killing them. It is not in the form normally translated as "let us" but a form of possibility: "we might destroy".

him -- The word translated as "him" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.

and -- (WW) The word translated as "that" is an adverb or a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause "there", "where" and "in order that". This word doesn't mean "and".  

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the", which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

inheritance -- "The inheritance" is from a noun that means "inheritance", "property" and "possession". It is from the same root as the word for "heir" above.

will -- (WW) This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English. This word doesn't indicate the future tense.   

be -- (CWW) The word translated as "be" means "to become", that is, to enter into a new state. When applied to events, this word means "to happen", "to occur" or "take place". Sometimes, "arises" works best when the subject comes into being. For things, it can be "to be produced". When the participle takes a predicate, the sense is "coming into" something. The form of the verb's object can indicate the time or to whom it "happens". This is not the specific meaning of the word in this situation.

ours -- "Ours" is the plural object form of the first-personal pronoun.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

ἰδόντες ( part pl aor act masc nom ) "Saw" is eido which means "to see", "to examine", "to perceive", "to behold", "to know how to do", "to see with the mind's eye" and "to know".

δὲ (conj/adv) "But" is de which means "but" and "on the other hand". It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be a weak connective ("and") and explanation of cause ("so") and a condition ("if").

αὐτὸν  (adj sg masc acc) "Him" is autos, which means "the same" and the reflexive pronouns, "myself", "yourself", "himself", "herself", "itself" or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him", "her" and "it". It also means "one's true self", that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord". In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there".

οἱ [821 verses](article plmasc nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones".

γεωργοὶ (adj pl masc nom) "Husbandmen" is georgos, which means "tilling the ground", and from that, "husbandman", "vine dresser", "gardener" and "peasant". 

διελογίζοντο ( verb 3rd pl imperf ind mp ) "They reasoned" is from dialogizomai, which means "to balance accounts", "to calculate exactly", "to add up account", "to debate", "to argue" and "to impute". 

πρὸς (prep) "Among" is pros, which means "on the side of", "in the direction of", "from" (place), "towards", "before", "in the presence of", "in the eyes of", "in the name of", "by reason of", "before" (supplication), "proceeding from" (for effects), "dependent on", "derivable from", "agreeable to", "becoming", "like", "at the point of", "in addition to", "against" and "before".

ἀλλήλους  [14 verses] (adj pl masc acc) "Themselves" is allelon, which means "one another", "to one another", "mutually" and "reciprocally". "One another" is a special adjective that means literally "one another."

λέγοντες ( part pl pres act masc nom) "Saying" is lego, which means "to recount", "to tell over", "to say", "to speak", "to teach", "to mean", "boast of", "tell of", "recite," nominate" and "command". It has a secondary meaning "pick out", "choose for oneself", "pick up", "gather", "count" and "recount". A less common word that is spelled the same means "to lay", "to lay asleep" and "to lull asleep".

Οὗτός ( adj sg masc nom ) "This" is houtos, which as an adjective means "this", "that", "the nearer". As an adverb, it means "in this way", "therefore", "so much", "to such an extent" and "that is why".

ἐστιν ( verb 3rd sg pres ind act ) "Is" is eimi, which means "to be", "to exist", "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen" and "is possible". (The future form is esomai. The 3rd person present indicative is "esti.")

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones".

κληρονόμος: [3 verses] (noun sg masc nom) "Heir" is klêronomos, which means "heir" and "heir apparent".

ἀποκτείνωμεν ( verb 1st pl pres/aor subj act ) "Let us kill" is apokteino, which means "to kill" and "to slay". It combines the word for "to slay" (kteino) with the proposition, apo, indicating separation, meaning "from" or "away from", but it is a stronger form than the normal verb kteino. It is more like our "destroy".

αὐτόν, (adj sg masc acc) "Him" is autos, which means "the same" and the reflexive pronouns, "myself", "yourself", "himself", "herself", "itself" or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him", "her" and "it". It also means "one's true self", that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord". In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there".

ἵνα (adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place", "there", "where", "when", "that", "in order that", "when" and "because".

ἡμῶν (pron 1st pl masc gen) "Ours" is hemon, which is the plural object form of the first-personal pronoun.

γένηται ( verb 3rd sg aor subj mid ) "May be" is ginomai, which means "to become", "to come into being", "to happen", of things "to be produced," of events "take place", "come to pass", "to be engaged in", math "to be multiplied into", "become one of", "turn into".and "to be." It means changing into a new state of being. It is the complementary opposite of the verb "to be" (eimi)which indicates existence in the same state.

[821 verses](article sg femacc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones". The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") than the English "the". See this article for more. 

κληρονομία: (noun sg fem acc) "Inheritance" is from klêronomia, which means "inheritance", "property" and "possession".

parallel comparison

The versions of this story in Matthew and Mark have been very different until now, but they begin to converge here, especially in what the vine-keepers say.

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