John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues:

Spoken to: 

Apostles

Context: 

After the Last Supper, after Jesus says they don't want to trip up.

KJV : 

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time comes, that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service.

Literal Verse: 

They will drive you out of meeting places, instead a season starts when every one killing you might imagine to offer a service to the Divine.

What is Lost in Translation: 

A lot of unusual words in this verse and some stilted or strange translations of the more common words. For example, the word translated as "put" is the word normally translated as "does"; the word translated as "does" is always translated as "offer" or "bring." Two words only appear here, an adjective translated as "out of the synagogue" and the noun translated as "service." The word that means "instead," that sets up the punchline, is translated strangely as "yea" or " or "however" is translated weirdly as "yea" and "in fact." As always, Jesus's words are much more light-hearted in the original Greek, even when dealing with very serious subjects. The set up has someone killing the Apostles is "imagining to offer" their deaths to a sacrifice, but the punchline is that it is "to the Divine," a human sacrifice, something that the word pagans of the Old Testament did.

My Takeaway: 

Being excluded or canceled is a way of saying it is okay to kill some people.

Greek : 

Original Word Order: 

Out of meeting places, they will mke you. Instead, it begins, a season when everyone killing you, a service, might imagine to offer to the Divine.

Wordplay: 

The contrast between aposynagogos, separate from assembly, and apokteinô, separate from life. 

Greek Vocabulary: 

ἀποσυναγώγους [1 verse](adj pl masc acc) "Out of the synagogues" is from aposynagogos, which means "expelled from the synagogues." It combines the word for synagogues with the proposition, apo, indicating separation, meaning "from" or "away from." "Synagogue" is from synagoge, which means a "bringing together," "assembly," "place of assembly," "contracting," "collection," "combination," "conclusion," and "demonstration." It comes from a Greek word Christ uses commonly, synago, to mean "gather" or "bring together."

ποιήσουσιν [168 verses](verb 3rd pl fut ind act) "They shall put" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do." The accusative object is what is made. Double accusative is to do something to someone. When it has a genitive object, it means "made from." When it doesn't have an object, the verb is translated as  "perform" or simply "do." When used with an accusative infinitive, it means to "cause" or "bring about." A dative object means "made with." 

ὑμᾶς [210 verses](pron 2nd pl acc) "You" is humas which is the plural objective form of the second-person pronoun, "you."

ἀλλ᾽ [154 verses](conj) "Yea" is alla, which means "instead," "otherwise," "but," "still," "at least," "except," "yet," nevertheless," "rather," "moreover," and "nay."

ἔρχεται [198 verses](verb 3rd sg pres ind mp) "Comes" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

ὥρα [37 verses](noun sg fem nom ) "Time" is hora, which means "any period," "season," (especially springtime), "year' (generally), "climate" (as determined by seasons), "duration," "the twelve equal parts into which the period of daylight was divided," "the fitting time" (for a task).

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

πᾶς [212 verses](adj sg masc nom) Untranslated is pas, which means "all," "the whole," "every," "anyone," "all kinds," and "anything." In the adverbial form, it means "every way," "on every side," "in every way," and "altogether."

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "Whosoever" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ἀποκτείνας [31 verses](part sg aor act masc nom) "Kills" is apokteino, which means "to kill," and "to slay." It combines the word for "to slay" (-kteino) with the proposition, apo, indicating separation, meaning "from" or "away from." but it is a stronger form than the normal verb -kteino. It is more like our "slaughter." It is in the form of a present participle, "slaughtering" acting as a noun ("those destroying").

[ὑμᾶς] [210 verses](pron 2nd pl acc) "You" is humas which is the plural objective form of the second-person pronoun, "you."

δόξῃ [17 verses](verb 3rd sg aor subj act) "Will think" is dokeo, which means "expect," "suppose," "imagine," "have an opinion," "seem," "seem good," and "to be reputed."

λατρείαν [1 verse](noun sg fem acc) "Service" is from latreia, which means "the state of a hired laborer," and "service." It is a metaphor for "business" and "the duties of life," and, when applied to the gods, "worship."

προσφέρειν [7 verses](verb pres inf act) "Does" is prosphero, which means literally "to bring in front of" also means "to bring to, " "to bring upon," "to apply to," [without dat] "to apply, use, or use," "to add to," "to present," "to offer," "to address [proposals]," "to convey [property]," "to contribute," "to pay," "to be carried towards [passive]," "to attack," "to assault," "to go toward," "to deal with," "to take [food or drink]," to exhibit," "to declare," and "to lead to."

τῷ [821 verses](article sg masc dat)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

θεῷ. [144 verses](noun sg masc dat) "God" is theos, which means "God," "divine," and "Deity."

KJV Analysis: 

They -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

shall -- This helping verb "shall" indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

put -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "put" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly. It is not the Greek word translated as "put" and "place."

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

out of  - This is from the prefix of the adjective that means "out of."

the synagogues: -- (UW) "Out of the synagogues" is from an adjective that means out of meeting places. not necessarily, religious services. It begins with a prefix indicating separation, the last part means "meeting places." "Synagogues" is an untranslated Greek word that means "meeting place."

yea,  -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "yea" denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead" or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, "not this," with a positive one, "instead this." This set up a positive expectation so ti sets up the punchline.

the  -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "the" in the Greek source.

time   - The word translated as "time" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour." More generally, it means a period of time, like a "season." It is not the Greek word for "time."

comes, -- (CW) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Jesus usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. This is a good example, because he means that a new period of time begins. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "come" or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

that -- (CW) The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "in order that" or "because."  However, it is also an adverb that means "in that place," "there," "where," or "when." With the reference to time, "when" works the best.

missing "all"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "all" is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

whosoever   -- The word translated as "whosoever" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

kills -- (WF) "To kill" is translated from a Greek word that means "slaughter" more than just "kill" because the base word means "slay." The Greek source has the sense of "kill off," that is, "killing" in a more thorough way. When we talk about "slaughtering" someone, we use it to mean destroying their reputation, the strength of their spirit and ideas as well as physically killing them. This is more the sense here. It is a participle not an active verb.

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

will -- (WW) This helping verb indicates that the verb is the future tense, but it isn't. It is in the form of possibility so it needs a "should" or "might."

think -- (CW) The word translated as "think" doesn't mean think as much as it means "expect" or "imagine."

that -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "that" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as an infinitive.

he -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

does -- (WW, WF) The Greek word translated as "does" is not that common word for "do," but one that has the additional meaning of "to offer" and "to present."The word is specifically used to describe offering sacrifices. The "you" here is singular.  It is not an active verb, but an infinitive.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

God -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods. The form is an indirect object, better translated as "to the Divine."

service. - The word translated as "service" means "service" and has many of the dimensions of our word "service" in including being hired by someone. It is also a metaphor for "worship" like our idea of religious services, which is the specific context in which it is used.

KJV Translation Issues: 

14
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "put" should be something more like "make."
  • UW - Untranslated Word -- The word "synagogues" means "meeting." It is the untranslated Greek word adopted into English.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "year" should be something more like "instead."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "the" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "comes" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "that" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "all" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "kill" is not an active verb but a participle, "killing."
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "will" should be something more like "should."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "think" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "does" should be something more like "to offer."
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "does" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to offer."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.

NIV : 

John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.

NIV Analysis: 

They -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

will -- This helping verb "will " indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

put -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "put" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly. It is not the Greek word translated as "put" and "place."

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

out of  - This is from the prefix of the adjective that means "out of."

the synagogue: -- (UW) "Out of the synagogues" is from an adjective that means out of meeting places. not necessarily, religious services. It begins with a prefix indicating separation, the last part means "meeting places." "Synagogues" is an untranslated Greek word that means "meeting place."

 in fact,  -- (WW) The Greek word translated as " in fact" denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead" or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, "not this," with a positive one, "instead this." This set up a positive expectation so ti sets up the punchline.

the  -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "the" in the Greek source.

time   - The word translated as "time" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour." More generally, it means a period of time, like a "season." It is not the Greek word for "time."

is -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb. It is used here to form the present, progressive tense, which doesn't exist in Greek but which can smooth the flow of English sentences.

coming , -- (CW) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Jesus usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. This is a good example, because he means that a new period of time begins. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "come" or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

when --The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "in order that" or "because."  However, it is also an adverb that means "in that place," "there," "where," or "when." With the reference to time, "when" works the best.

missing "all"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "all" is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

anyone -- (WW) The word translated as "anyone " is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.  This is not the Greek word that specifically means "anyone."

who -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "who" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

kills -- (WF) "To kill" is translated from a Greek word that means "slaughter" more than just "kill" because the base word means "slay." The Greek source has the sense of "kill off," that is, "killing" in a more thorough way. When we talk about "slaughtering" someone, we use it to mean destroying their reputation, the strength of their spirit and ideas as well as physically killing them. This is more the sense here. It is a participle not an active verb.

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

will -- (WW) This helping verb indicates that the verb is the future tense, but it isn't. It is in the form of possibility so it needs a "should" or "might."

think -- (CW) The word translated as "think" doesn't mean think as much as it means "expect" or "imagine."

they -- (WN) This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

are -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb. It is used here to form the present, progressive tense, which doesn't exist in Greek but which can smooth the flow of English sentences.

offering -- (WF) The Greek word translated as "does" is not that common word for "do," but one that has the additional meaning of "to offer" and "to present."The word is specifically used to describe offering sacrifices. The "you" here is singular.  It is not an active verb, but an infinitive.

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

service. - The word translated as "service" means "service" and has many of the dimensions of our word "service" in including being hired by someone. It is also a metaphor for "worship" like our idea of religious services, which is the specific context in which it is used.

to -- This word "to" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

God -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods. The form is an indirect object, better translated as "to the Divine."

NIV Translation Issues: 

15
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "put" should be something more like "make."
  • UW - Untranslated Word -- The word "synagogues" means "meeting." It is the untranslated Greek word adopted into English.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "year" should be something more like "instead."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "the" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "comes" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "all" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "anyone" should be something more like "one."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "kill" is not an active verb but a participle, "killing."
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "will" should be something more like "should."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "think" does not capture the word's specific meaning in this situation.
  • WN  - Wrong Number- The word "they" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "offering" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to offer."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.

Unimportant Opinions and Imaginings: 

The way Jesus makes fun of death you might think he actually believed in eternal life or something instead of just using it as a threat to promote their religion.

Christ uses two seldom-used words, aposynagogos and apokteinô, to contrast two concepts here, both of them negative, in a light-hearted way. The first seems bad, being cast out of religious services. The second is worse, being killed as a religious service. The two words use the same prefix, apo indicating separation, to make the parallel between the two stronger: being separated from the religious assembly in the former and being separated from life in the later. The word translated as "yea" sits between these ideas and its meaning "but" gives the verse some of its lightness.

Of course, paralleling a religious "service" (in the synagogue) with "service to God" is done by using the word latreia, which, just like our English word "service" means religious worship when used with the word for the divine, theos. That word, is, of course, used here. Notice that Christ has only referred to God as the "Father" throughout this section until we get here. He makes the change to theos here so that latreia means what he wants it to mean.

Front Page Date: 

Nov 16 2022