Spoken to:
After Jesus calls his students to him as say they must destroy their selves to save themselves.
KJV:
Mark 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
NIV :
Mark 8:37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
LISTENERS HEARD:
Because what price should a man give for that self of his?
MY TAKE:
If we are self-aware, we don't set a price on our selves.
GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page):
GREEK ORDER:
LOST IN TRANSLATION:
However, the key term here is "exchange," which is a noun, not a verb and an uncommon one. The word used means the thing traded in return for trying to get something else. We would simply call it a "price."
The word translated as "soul" here and in the previous verse is translated as "life" works more consistently as "self" as our sense of who we are in this world. See this article for detail about this word and related words.
# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES:
- OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "or" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "because" is not shown in the English translation.
- IW - Inserted Word -- The word "in" doesn't exist in the source.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "soul" is not shown in the English translation.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The "soul" is the word translated as "life" in the last verse.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES:
- WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "or" should be something more like "because."
- WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "can" should be something more like "will."
- CW - Confusing Word -- The "anyone" is not the common word usually translated as "anyone."
- IW - Inserted Word -- The word "in" doesn't exist in the source.
- WN - Wrong Number- The word "their" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "that" before "soul" is not shown in the English translation.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The "soul" is the word translated as "life" in the last verse.
EACH WORD of KJV :
Or -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "or" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.
what -- The word translated as "what" means primarily "anything" or "anyone," but Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who", "what", or even "why".
missing "because" -- (MW) The untranslated word introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." This did not appear in th KJV source.
shall -- (CW) This helping verb "shall" does not indicate the future tense, but that the verb describes a possibility, the subjunctive voice. A "might" or "should" in English is more appropriate, but is assumed in an "if/when/whoever/except" clause. Helping verbs are not needed in Greek since the main verb carries this information in its form. CW - Confusing Word - This "shall" does not indicate the future tense, but describes a possibility, the subjunctive voice.
a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a word doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.
man -- The Greek word for "man" means "man", "person" and "humanity" in the singular. In the plural, it means "men", "people", and "peoples".
give -- Give" means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over", "appoint", "establish," and "to describe." It is almost always translated as some form of "give." The form
in -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "in" in the Greek source.
exchange -- "Exchange" is from an uncommon noun for Jesus means "that which is given or taken in exchange." It has the sense of the second part of a barter. It is the counterpart of the primary thing that is traded. It also means "the price" or "the reward" for a thing and "change" and "vicissitude."
for -- The form of the following article and noun requires that addition of extra words in English to capture their meaning. The most common is the "of" of possession, but it can also mean "belonging to," "part of", "which is", "than" (in comparisons), or "for", "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs.
his -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."
missing "that" -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.
soul? - (CW) --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." In the previous verse, it was translated as "life." Jesus uses it to mean our identity in our worldly life specifically, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word and related words.
EACH WORD of NIV :
Or -- (WW) The word translated as "or" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." This did not appear in th KJV source.
can -- (WW) This verb "can" does not appear here. There should be a helping verb to indicate the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.
anyone -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "anyone" means "man," "person" and "humanity" in the singular. In the plural, it means "men," "people," and "peoples." This is not the Greek word usually translated as "anyone."
give -- Give" means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over", "appoint", "establish," and "to describe." It is almost always translated as some form of "give." The form
in -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "in" in the Greek source.
exchange -- "Exchange" is from an uncommon noun for Jesus means "that which is given or taken in exchange." It has the sense of the second part of a barter. It is the counterpart of the primary thing that is traded. It also means "the price" or "the reward" for a thing and "change" and "vicissitude."
for -- The form of the following article and noun requires that addition of extra words in English to capture their meaning. The most common is the "of" of possession, but it can also mean "belonging to," "part of", "which is", "than" (in comparisons), or "for", "concerning" or "about" with transitive verbs.
their -- (WN) The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."
missing "that" -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article, which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.
soul? - (CW) --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." In the previous verse, it was translated as "life." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word and related words.
COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV :
τί [252 verses] (irreg sg neut nom) "What" is tis which can mean "someone", "any one", "everyone", "they [indefinite]", "many a one", "whoever", "anyone", "anything", "some sort", "some sort of", "each", "any", "the individual", "such," and so on. In a question, it can mean "who", "why," or "what."
γὰρ [205 verses] (partic) "For" comes from gar which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for", "since," and "as." In an abrupt question, it means "why" and "what."
δοῖ [147 verses][verb, 3rd sg a subj act] "Will give" is didomi, which means "to give", "to grant", "to hand over", "appoint", "establish," and "to describe."
ἄνθρωπος [209 verses]( noun sg masc nom ) "A man" is anthropos, which is "man," and, in plural, "mankind." It also means "humanity" and that which is human and opposed to that which is animal or inanimate.
ἀντάλλαγμα [2 verses](noun sg neut acc) "Exchange" is antallagma, which means "that which is given or taken in exchange." It has the sense of the second part of a barter, the counterpart of allagma, (ant-allagma) which is the primary thing that is traded and also means "the price" or "the reward" for a thing and "change" and "vicissitude."
τῆς [821 verses](article sg fem gen) Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). -
ψυχῆς [33 verses](noun sg fem gen) "Soul" is psyche, which means "breath," "life," "self," "spirit," and "soul." It has the clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is often translated as "soul."
αὐτοῦ; [41 verses](adj sg masc gen) "His" is from autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord."
Related Verses:
Possible Symbolic Meaning:
In the Mark 8:36, Jesus expressed the idea that it is our consciousness that gives life meaning.The first part of the trade is the soul. Here, Christ simple asks the question about the second part of that trade: what is more valuable than your sense of self, your self-awareness?
While the term used here for soul (psuchê) is often translated as "life" (including the verse that begins this discussion), it specifically means our consciousness. Christ says that our self awareness is not destroyed by death (Matthew 10:28) like life is. We can lose our self-awareness to distraction. Something that Jesus describes elsewhere as "trashing" it (genna, usually translated as hell, means a specific trash heap in which children were once sacrificed to Baal) in the same way that we can trash our bodies and losing it.
It occurs to me that one of the dangers of an "entertainment" culture is that we seek to lose our sense of self, our consciousness. We busy our mind with constant distraction (music, TV, etc.) so that we lose touch with our real lives. At what point does seeking entertainment cross over into exchanging our consciousness for an alternative?