Mark 8:29 But whom do you say that I am?

Spoken to
Apostles

On the way to Caesarea Phillipi with his students and they say people thinks he is one of the prophets.

KJV

Mark 8:29  But whom say ye that I am?

NIV

Mark 8:29 Who do you say I am?

LISTENERS HEARD

Yourselves, however, whom do you speak of me to be? 

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The "you" is plural here. Jesus wasn't asking just Peter, but all the apostles. The pronoun is used, to emphasize or repeat the subject.

The "say I am" is actually, "speak of me to be." The mean is an object and the "to be" is an infiintive.

MY TAKE

We should wonder how others see us.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page)
GREEK ORDER

Ὑμεῖς                  δὲ      τίνα    με   λέγετε                 εἶναι
yourselves, however, whom  me do you speak of to be? 

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
4
  • MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so it needs a "yourself" after "you" for emphasis.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "I" is not a subject but an object.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "am" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to be."
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
5
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "but" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "who" is not an object but a subject.
  • MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so it needs a "yourself" as well as the "you" for emphasis.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "I" is not a subject but an object.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "am" is not an active verb but an infinitive, "to be."
EACH WORD of KJV

But . -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but", "however", and "on the other hand". Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

whom -- The word translated as "what" means primarily "anything" or "anyone," but Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who", "what", or even "why". 

say --  The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of." 

ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. It is emphrasized by beginning the sentence.  Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself." MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so it needs a "yourself" after "you" for emphasis.

that -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "that" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle. IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.

I -- (WF) The pronoun is not "I" but "me," not a subject but an object. In English the word "say" doesn't take a direct object.

am?  -  (WF) The verb that means "to be" or "to exist" here that is not the active form of the verb, but the infinitive form, which acts more like a noun.  The sense is "to be" or "to exist."  in Greek, a form that has no information about the subject or tense as do most Greek verbs. It does not mean "am" as much as "to be".  It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition.

EACH WORD of NIV

missing "but"  -- (MW) The untranslated word ."but" means "but", "however", and "on the other hand". Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better. 

Who -- (WF) The word translated as "what" means primarily "anything" or "anyone," but Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who", "what", or even "why".  This is an object, "whom."

do -- This English helping verb is used to create questions, commands, negative statements, and smooth word flow in translation from Greek

ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. It is emphasized by beginning the sentence.  Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."

say --  The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of." 

I -- (WF) The pronoun is not "I" but "me," not a subject but an object. In English the word "say" doesn't take a direct object.

am?  -  (WF) The verb that means "to be" or "to exist" here that is not the active form of the verb, but the infinitive form, which acts more like a noun.  The sense is "to be" or "to exist."  in Greek, a form that has no information about the subject or tense as do most Greek verbs. It does not mean "am" as much as "to be".  It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Ὑμεῖς [92 verses](pron 2nd pl nom) "You" is hymeis, which are the singular nominative form of the second person, "you." 

δὲ [446 verses](partic) "But" is from de which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be a weak connective ("and") and explanation of cause ("so").

τίνα  [252 verses](irreg sg neutral/masc acc) "Whom" is from tis which can mean "someone", "any one", "everyone", "they [indefinite]", "many a one", "whoever", "anyone", "anything", "some sort", "some sort of", "each", "any", "the individual", "such," and so on. In a question, it can mean "who", "why," or "what."

με [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) Untranslated is eme, which means "I", "me", and "my".

λέγετε [264 verses](verb 2nd pl pres ind) "Say" is from lego, which means "to recount", "to tell over", "to say", "to speak", "to teach", "to mean", "boast of", "tell of", "recite," nominate," and "command." It has a secondary meaning "pick out, "choose for oneself", "pick up", "gather", "count," and "recount."

εἶναι; .[614 verses](verb pres inf act) "Is" is from eimi, which means "to be", "to exist", "to be the case," and "is possible." (The future form is esomai. The 3rd person present indicative is "esti.") 

Possible Symbolic Meaning

The assumption here is that the apostles should have a different viewpoint. If we look at Christ's words along in this chapter, taking them out of the narrative story, they become discussion about the difference between crowds of people without firsthand knowledge and the select smaller groups who do have first hand knowledge.

It starts with Christ having sympathy for the crowd because they had no bread. Bread is used throughout the Gospels as Christ's symbol for the nourishment of knowledge and the bread's leaven the spirit that lives in that knowledge. When Christ multiplies bread, one of the ideas that he is demonstrating is how knowledge can multiply easily.

Afterward, when Christ worries about the leaven of the Pharisees, he chastises the apostles for not understanding his symbol. The crowd is not expected to understand, but the chosen have first hand knowledge and should understand.

When Christ heals the blind man, he bids him to keep it a secrets from those in town because the crowd lacks that understanding and will follow him for the wrong reasons.

This leads directly to this discussion about the difference between in perspective between the crowd and his followers about who he is. His point is again that the crowd lacks understanding while those with firsthand experience know what is true.  Again, he bids his followers to keep this a secret from the crowd.

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