Jesus challenges ask "Who are you?"
John 8:25 Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 8:25 Just what I have been telling you from the beginning
Initially, just as what I prattled to you.
Jesus's answer is another bit of wordplay. In answering the question about who he is, his first words mean "the origin" or even "the highest power." This might, for a moment, seem to be an answer, but it isn't because these words' Greek forms are wrong for an answer. Their forms make them either the object of the verb or an adverb, but his listeners have to wait to hear the verb before they can understand what these words mean. And, of course, Jesus saves the verb for near the end of the sentence. The verb makes them adverbial because they are not the object of the verb. This gives them the meaning of "initially," and "at the beginning," something they can only understand at the end.
What does this "initially" refer to? What did he tell them? This whole discussion started because Jesus said that he was "the light of the world" (John 8:12), which caused his challengers to accuse him of giving false testimony. So, the whole conversation of ten verses, mostly discussing the law of witnessing forces his challengers to ask for the very information that he gave them at the beginning that they didn't want to accept. This is a work of beauty that gets completely lost in translation.
At the end, we must ask for the information we were told at the beginning.
- IW - Inserted Word -- The word "the same" doesn't exist in the source.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The "said" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
- WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "have" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is the present.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The "beeb telling" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
Even -- The Greek word translated as "even" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."
the same -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "the same" in the Greek source.
that -- "that" is a pronoun that means "that," "anyone who," "anything which," "whosoever," "whichsoever" and "anybody whatsoever."
I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.
said -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "said" is not the ordinary "to say" or "to speak" in Greek. This word means both "idle chatter," "gossip," and "the proclamations of an oracle." Jesus uses it to capture the idea of "pass on" or "relay" information because that captures both someone gossiping and an oracle does. The word is somewhat self-effacing.
unto -- This word "to" comes from the dative case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object.
you -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you," "for you," etc.
from -- This preposition isn't in the Greek, but it must be added to convey the adverbial nature of the following words.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.
beginning. -- "Beginning" is a noun that means "beginning," "origin," "first principles," "first place of power," "empire," and "command." This is the word from which we get both "archbishop," primal bishops who can consecrate other bishops, and "archeology," the study of ancient history.
Just -- The Greek word translated as "just" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."
what -- "that" is a pronoun that means "that," "anyone who," "anything which," "whosoever," "whichsoever" and "anybody whatsoever."
I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.
have -- (WT) This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.
been telling -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "been telling" is not the ordinary "to say" or "to speak" in Greek. This word means both "idle chatter," "gossip," and "the proclamations of an oracle." Jesus uses it to capture the idea of "pass on" or "relay" information because that captures both someone gossiping and an oracle does. The word is somewhat self-effacing.
you -- The Greek pronoun "you" here is plural and in the form of an indirect object, "to you," "for you," etc.
from -- This preposition isn't in the Greek, but it must be added to convey the adverbial nature of the following words.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.
beginning. -- "Beginning" is a noun that means "beginning," "origin," "first principles," "first place of power," "empire," and "command." This is the word from which we get both "archbishop," primal bishops who can consecrate other bishops, and "archeology," the study of ancient history.
Τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc) "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").
ἀρχὴν [13 verses](noun sg fem acc) "Beginning" is arche, which means "beginning," "origin," "first principles," "first place of power," "empire," and "command." This is the word from which we get both "archbishop," primal bishops who can consecrate other bishops, and "archeology," the study of ancient.
ὅτι [90 verses](pron sg neut acc) "What" is hostis, which means "that," "anyone who," "anything which," "whosoever," "whichsoever" and "anybody whatsoever." NOTE: The KJV source divides this into two words, ὅ τι where the ὅ is hos that demonstrative pronoun, "that" and τι is tis, the word meaning "anything," but that is the basic meaning of hostis.
καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "the same" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."
λαλῶ [49 verses](1st sg pres ind/subj act) "That I said" is laleo, which means "to talk," "to speak" "to prattle," "to chat," and [for oracles] "to proclaim." It also means "chatter" as the opposite of articulate speech. However, Jesus seems to use in in the sense of "relaying" information gained from another.
ὑμῖν [289 verses](pron 2nd pl dat) "To you" is humin the plural form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you."