John 8:39 If ye were Abraham's children,

Spoken to
audience

Jesus tells his audience that, despite being Abraham's seed, they still need to do what the father has told them to do.

KJV

John 8:39 If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

NIV

John 8:39 If you were Abraham’s children, then you would do what Abraham did.

LISTENERS HEARD

Since you are the children of this Abraham, the deeds of this Abraham? Do!

LOST IN TRANSLATION

As we saw in the last verse, the poor translations of this verse copy the problems in the KJV coming from their poor source but in this case, the Latin Vulgate was closer to the Greek. Jesus was not criticizing his listeners for not following Abraham, but commanding them to do so. The Greek says, "since you are children of this Abraham" not "if you were." The verb is the present tense not in the form of a possibility needed for an "if." It cites a fact so the word translated as "if" means "since" or "as sure as." And as we saw in the last verse, the final word, the punchline, is the command "do." While the form could also be a statement, statistical analysis indicates its form is much more likely to be a command (9% to 88%).

MY TAKE

Who we are is determined by what we do.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
4
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "were" was the past tense in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "'s" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "would" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "'of" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
8
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb  "were" is the past tense, but Greek is in present "are."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "'s" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "then" doesn't exist in the source.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "would" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "works" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "what" should be something more like "deeds."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "Abraham" is not shown in the English translation.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "did" doesn't exist in the source.
EACH WORD of KJV

If -- The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if ever" and "whenever." However, in citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since,"  which is the sense here.

ye -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

were -- (OS) The verb "were" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. This is the present tense in our current source, but it was the past tense in the KJV source.

Abraham -- This is from the Greek spelling of "Abraham."

's -- (CW) The possessive comes from the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

children, -- The word translated as "son" means "child" but in the most general sense of "offspring." Christ does not use it to refer specifically to children under seven, which is another term. See this article more about these words for "child."

ye -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

would -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "would" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

do -- AsAs weThe Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  It is not as broad a word as the English "do," which covers all actions, productive or not. 

the   -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

works -- The Greek word translated as "works" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

of -- (CW) The possessive comes from the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

Abraham.-- This is from the Greek spelling of "Abraham."

EACH WORD of NIV

If -- The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if ever" and "whenever." However, in citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since,"  which is the sense here.

you -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

were -- (WT) The verb "were" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. This is the present tense in our current source not the past.

Abraham -- This is from the Greek spelling of "Abraham."

's -- (CW) The possessive comes from the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

children, -- The word translated as "son" means "child" but in the most general sense of "offspring." Christ does not use it to refer specifically to children under seven, which is another term. See this article more about these words for "child."

then -- (IW) There is  nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "then" in the Greek source.

you -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

would -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "would" in the Greek source.

do -- The Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  It is not as broad a word as the English "do," which covers all actions, productive or not. 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

what -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "works" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

Abraham.-- This is from the Greek spelling of "Abraham."

did -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "did" in the Greek source.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Εἰ  [90 verses](conj) "If" is ei, which is the particle used to express conditions "if" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect questions, "whether." It also means "if ever," "in case," and "whenever." In citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since."  It is combined with various conjunctions to create derivative conditions.

τέκνα [25 verses](noun sg neut nom/acc) "Child" is teknon (teknion), which means "that which is born," "child," and "the young."

τοῦ [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  "Of" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

Ἀβραάμ [18 verses](Hebrew name) "Abraham" is Abraam, which is the Greek form of "Abraham."

ἐστε, .[614 verses] ( 2nd pl pres ind act) "Were" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

τὰ [821 verses](article pl neut nom/acc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ἔργα [31 verses] (noun pl neut nom/acc) "The works" is ergon, which means "works," "tasks," "deeds," "actions," "thing," and "matter."

τοῦ [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  "Of" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

Ἀβραάμ [18 verses](Hebrew name) "Abraham" is Abraam, which is the Greek form of "Abraham." \

ποιεῖτε: [168 verses](verb 2nd pl pres imperat) "Do" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do."

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