John 8:54 If I honour myself,

Spoken to
challengers

This is in response to Jesus's challengers that ask him if he is greater than Abraham and the prophets because he offers life and they all died.

KJV

John 8:54 If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

NIV

John 8:54 If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

LISTENERS HEARD

When I myself recognize myself, that recognition of mine is nothing. He is, that Father of mine, the one recognizing me. Him, you yourselves said that he is a god of yours,

LOST IN TRANSLATION

This verse is a setup for the last line in it, which is a putdown of his opponents. The translations capture the idea of Jesus not praising himself but instead praising his Father. The last line, however, doesn't say that his Father is their God, but "a god of theirs," suggesting that they worship him more like an idol than God.

The noun and verbs translated as "honor" and "glory" is often translated in the Bible as  "glory" and "glorify." However, the sense is more of "recognize" in the sense of recognizing quality or superiority. The idea of "praise" is not far off, but "praise" has a sense of divine worship today that this word did not have.

MY TAKE

We can not take a reputation, it is given by others.

GREEK ORDER

Ἐὰν    ἐγὼ       δοξάσω     ἐμαυτόν,     δόξα            μου        οὐδέν  ἐστιν:
When I myself recognize myself,   that recognition of mine nothing is

ἔστιν        πατήρ  μου                   δοξάζων      με,
He is, that Father   of mine, the one recognizing me.

ὃν ὑ   μεῖς                   λέγετε ὅτι   θεὸς    ὑμῶν      ἐστίν,
Him, you yourselves said    that a god of yours, he is

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
9
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "if" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW -- Missing Word  -- The pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "honor" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "honor" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "honor" is not an active verb but a participle, "recognizing."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "of" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "a" is not shown in the English translation.l which is needed to make Jesus's reference to "a god."
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
14
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "if" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW -- Missing Word  -- The pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "glorify" is more like "recognize."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "glory" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "means" should be something more like "is."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "it is" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "claim" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "as" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "that" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "a" is not shown in the English translation.l which is needed to make Jesus's reference to "a god."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "glorifies" is not an active verb but a participle, "recognizing."
EACH WORD of KJV

If -- (CW) The Greek word meaning "when" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is how we use the word "when." This is not the simple "if.

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

honour -- The Greek term translated as "honor" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental imaging and honoring sense of the word. "Recognize" works especially well with actors because they seek fame and recognition from the audience. More about this word in this article.

myself, -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "myself." It is used primarily as the object of a preposition. As a genitive object means a movement away from something or a position away from something else. Jesus is clearly emphasizing himself in this verse.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

honour-- (CW) The Greek noun translated as "honor" means "expectation," "notion," "opinion," "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in the Bible. The English words "acclaim" and "recognition" come closest to capturing the way Jesus uses the word. The verb form has the sense of "recognize." Honor is an internal quality while this idea is more about external recognition.

is -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

nothing: -- The Greek adjective translated as "no man" also means "no one," "nothing," and other negative ideas. It is used by Jesus more like a negative pronoun than an adjective. 

it -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

is  -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  When the verb "to be" appears early in the clause before the subject, the sense is more like "it is" or, in the plural, "there are."

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

that -- The word translated as "that" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

honoureth -- (WF) The Greek term translated as "honoreth" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental imaging and honoring sense of the word. "Recognize" works especially well with actors because they seek fame and recognition from the audience. More about this word in this article. The form is a participle, not an active verb so, which the article, "the one honoring."

me; -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

of -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "of" in the Greek source.

whom - The word translated as "of whom" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

say, -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."

that -- The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

he -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

is -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. -- When the verb "to be" appears early in the clause before the subject, the sense is more like "it is" or, in the plural, "there are."

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours." Here, it is the object of the previous preposition.

missing "a"  -- (MW) There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a word doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation. Since Jesus always proceeds the word meaning "god" with "the" when referring to the Judean God, the sense here is that he is referring to a pagan one.

God: -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is usually introduced with an article, which is missing here. So the sense is "a god" rather than "the God" indicating the one God. This is a subtle, but real putdown.

EACH WORD of NIV

If -- (CW) The Greek word meaning "when" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is how we use the word "when." This is not the simple "if.

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

glorify -- (CW) The Greek term translated as "glorify " is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental imaging and honoring sense of the word. "Recognize" works especially well with actors because they seek fame and recognition from the audience. More about this word in this article.

myself, -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "myself." It is used primarily as the object of a preposition. As a genitive object means a movement away from something or a position away from something else. Jesus is clearly emphasizing himself in this verse.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

glory -- (CW) The Greek noun translated as "glory " means "expectation," "notion," "opinion," "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in the Bible. The English words "acclaim" and "recognition" come closest to capturing the way Jesus uses the word. The verb form has the sense of "recognize." Honor is an internal quality while this idea is more about external recognition.

means -- (WW) The verb "means" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

nothing: -- The Greek adjective translated as "no man" also means "no one," "nothing," and other negative ideas. It is used by Jesus more like a negative pronoun than an adjective.

missing "it is"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "it is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  When the verb "to be" appears early in the clause before the subject, the sense is more like "it is" or, in the plural, "there are."

My -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

whom - The word translated as "whom" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

you -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

claim, -- (CW) The word translated as "claim" is the most common word that means "to say," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."

as -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "as" in the Greek source.

missing "that"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours." Here, it is the object of the previous preposition.

missing "a"  -- (MW) There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a word doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation. Since Jesus always proceeds the word meaning "god" with "the" when referring to the Judean God, the sense here is that he is referring to a pagan one.

God: -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is usually introduced with an article, which is missing here. So the sense is "a god" rather than "the God" indicating the one God. This is a subtle, but real putdown.

is -- The word "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. -- When the verb "to be" appears early in the clause before the subject, the sense is more like "it is" or, in the plural, "there are."

the one  -- This  is the Greek definite article, "the," which without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

who -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "whi" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

glorifies -- (WF) The Greek term translated as "glorifies " is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental imaging and honoring sense of the word. "Recognize" works especially well with actors because they seek fame and recognition from the audience. More about this word in this article. The form is a participle, not an active verb so, which the article, "the one honoring."

me; -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.
 

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Ἐὰν [162 verses](conj) "If" is ean, which is a conditional particle (derived from ei (if) and an (might), which makes reference to a time and experience in the future that introduces but does not determine an event. This is how we use the word "when."

ἐγὼ [162 verses](pron 1st sg masc nom) "I" is ego, which is the first-person singular pronoun meaning "I." It also means "I at least," "for my part," "indeed," and for myself.

δοξάσω [18 verses] (verb 1st sg aor subj act) "Honour" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT the translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them.

ἐμαυτόν, [15 verses] (pron sg masc acc)  "Myself" is emautou, which means "of me," and "of myself".

[821 verses](article sg fem nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

δόξα  [26 verses](noun sg fem nom) "Glory" is doxa, which means "expectation," "notion," "opinion," "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are applied to external appearances but are found primarily in translating the Bible. The words "recognition," "honor." and "reputation" come closest to capturing the way Jesus uses the word, especially if we consider how he uses the verb form.

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

οὐδὲν [69 verses](adj sg neut nom/acc) "Nothing" is oudeis which means "no one," "not one," "nothing," "naught," "good for naught," and "no matter."

ἐστίν.[614 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "Is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

ἐστίν.[614 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "It is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  

πατὴρ [191 verses](noun sg masc nom) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "My" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "That" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

δοξάζων [18 verses] (part sg pres act masc) "Honoureth" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT the translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them.

με, [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

ὃν [294 verses](pron sg masc/neut acc) "Of whom" is hos, which means "this," "that," "he," "she," "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings. -

ὑμεῖς [92 verses](pron 2nd pl nom) "You" is hymeis (humeis), which is the plural nominative form of the second person, "you."

λέγετε [264 verses](2nd pl pres/imperf ind act) "You say" is lego, which means "to recount," "to tell over," "to say," "to speak," "to teach," "to mean," "boast of," "tell of," "recite," nominate," and "command." When used with an object is has the sense of "call by name."  It has a secondary meaning "pick out," "choose for oneself," "pick up," "gather," "count," and "recount." A less common word that is spelled the same means "to lay," "to lay asleep" and "to lull asleep."

ὅτι [332 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hoti, which introduces a statement of fact "with regard to the fact that," "seeing that," and acts as a causal adverb meaning "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

θεοῦ [144 verses](noun sg masc gen) "God" is theos, which means "God," "divine," and "Deity."

ὑμῶν [168 verses](pron 2nd pl gen) "Your/you" is humon, the plural possessive form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you." It is either a possessive pronoun or the object of a preposition.

ἐστίν.[614 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "He is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

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