Luke 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off,

Spoken to: 

audience

Jesus addresses a large crowd and describes a king, sitting down and calculating the likelinood of winning against a king with a larger force.

KJV: 

Luke 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

NIV : 

Luke 14:32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace.

LISTENERS HEARD: 

But if indeed not, still being just there, far off, sending off a delegation, he asks for peace. 

MY TAKE: 

Bargain for peace before engaging in conflict.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

εἰ δὲ   μήγε,          ἔτι   αὐτοῦ       πόρρω ὄντος    πρεσβείαν ἀποστείλας  ἐρωτᾷ  πρὸς εἰρήνην.
if But indeed not, still just there, far off, being a delegation, sending off he asks for    peace. 

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

This is another verse with so much inserted and changed in translation, that it is hard to point out all the issues. The verses beginning refers to not liking the calculation described in the previous verse. The  idea that Jesus expresses is simple: peace is an easier compromise before battle.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

11

Or (WW) else(WW), while(WW) the(IW) other is(WF) yet(CW) a great way off, he sendeth(CW, WF) an ambassage, and(IW) desireth conditions(IW) of(WW) peace.

  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "or" should be something more like "but."
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "else" should be something more like "not at all."
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "while" should be something more like "not at all."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "the" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "being."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "yet" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning of "sent off" or "sent out."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "sending."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "and" doesn't exist in the source.
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "conditions" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "of" should be something more like "for."

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

14

If(CW) (MWhowever) [he is(IW)] not(CW) able(IW), he will(WT) send (CW, WF) a delegation while(IW) the(IW) other is still a long way off and(IW) will(WT) ask for terms(IW) of(WW) peace

  • CW --Confusing Word -- This word doesn't mean "if" in this situation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "however"  after "if" is not shown in the English translation. 
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "he is " doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This word doesn't precisely mean just "no."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "able" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "will" indicates the future tense, but that is not the tense here.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning of "sent off" or "sent out."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "sending off."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "while" doesn't exist in the source.
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "the" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "being."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "and" doesn't exist in the source.
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "terms" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "of" should be something more like "for."

EACH WORD of KJV : 

Or -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "or" means "but," "yet," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  This word doesn't mean "or." 

else, -- (WW) The "else" here  is the negative used in opinions, prohibitions, possibilities, and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no" with an emphatic particle meaning "at least" and "indeed." So the sense is "no indeed" or "not at all." In a conditional clause "if really not."  This word doesn't mean "else." 

while  -- (WW)This word is used to express conditions "whether" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect and direct questions, "whether."It also means "if ever" and "whenever." When used in an "if" clause, the verb is the subjunctive form of possibility. When citing a fact  the sense is more  "whether," "since" or "as sure as." The verb is not subjunctive, which means it is citing a fact.This word doesn't mean "while."

the -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

other -- The word translated as "other" is the Greek word correctly translated as third-person "his/him" in English.  The word appears after the noun so the sense is "of his."

is -- (WF) The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "being."

yet  (CW) "Yet" is an adverb that means "yet" (with future) and "still" (w/present), "already",  "longer", "no longer" (with a negative), "still" and "besides".

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

great way  off - "Great way off" is an adverb that means "forwards," "onwards," generally with a notion of motion, of Distance, "far off," "too far," of Time, "forward," of Place, "further into."

he -- -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb"desire".

sendeth  --- (CW, WF) The "send " here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." This word is not the simple "send" but a more complex one that means "send out" or "send from."

an -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

ambassage, - "Ambassage" is a noun that means "age", "seniority", "right of the elder", "rank", "dignity", "body of ambassadors", and "intercession". We call a "body of ambassadors" a "delegation". 

and -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

desireth -- The word translated as "desire" means "to ask"  "to beg," or "to question."  It means to "ask about a thing" or "to question a person." A different Greek verb means "asking for something" as in "request."

conditions  --  (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

of  -- (WW) The word translated as "conditions" has a meaning that depends on the form of it object and its verb types. Generally, it means "towards," "by reason of,"   "in reply to," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before."

peace.-- "Peace" is the Greek term that means harmony between individuals and nations" and the general idea of safety, security, and prosperity. It is the opposite of the state of war. In Hebrew, the word for peace was used in salutations and as an inquiry as to one's health. Among Judeans, it refers to the "health" in the sense of a peace of the body. Jesus uses this word to mean "peace" as opposed to war, "peace" as harmony, and "peace" as health.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

If -- (CW)This word is used to express conditions "whether" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect and direct questions, "whether."It also means "if ever" and "whenever." When used in an "if" clause, the verb is the subjunctive form of possibility. When citing a fact  the sense is more  "whether," "since" or "as sure as." The verb is not subjunctive, which means it is citing a fact. This word doesn't mean "if" in this situation.

missing "however"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "but" means "but," "yet," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  This word doesn't mean "or." 

he is -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

not -- (CW) The "not" here  is the negative used in opinions, prohibitions, possibilities, and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no" with an emphatic particle meaning "at least" and "indeed." So the sense is "no indeed" or "not at all." This word doesn't precisely mean just "no."

able, (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

he -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

will  -- (WT) This helping verb "will" indicates the future tense, but the verb is not the future.

send --- (CW, WF) The "send " here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." This word is not the simple "send" but a more complex one that means "send out" or "send from."

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

delegation , - "Delegation " is a noun that means "age", "seniority", "right of the elder", "rank", "dignity", "body of ambassadors", and "intercession". We call a "body of ambassadors" a "delegation". 

while-- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

the -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

other -- The word translated as "other" is the Greek word correctly translated as third-person "his/him" in English.  The word appears after the noun so the sense is "of his."

is -- (WF) The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, "being."

still -- "Still " is an adverb that means "yet" (with future) and "still" (w/present), "already",  "longer", "no longer" (with a negative), "still" and "besides".

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

great way  off - "Great way off" is an adverb that means "forwards," "onwards," generally with a notion of motion, of Distance, "far off," "too far," of Time, "forward," of Place, "further into."

and -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

he -- -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb"desire".

will  -- (WT) This helping verb "will" indicates the future tense, but the verb is not the future.

ask -- The word translated as "ask" means "to ask"  "to beg," or "to question."  It means to "ask about a thing" or "to question a person." A different Greek verb means "asking for something" as in "request."

for -- This preposition is needed for the indirect object required by the English verb.

terms   --  (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

of  -- (WW) The word translated as "conditions" has a meaning that depends on the form of it object and its verb types. Generally, it means "towards," "by reason of,"   "in reply to," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before."

peace.-- "Peace" is the Greek term that means harmony between individuals and nations" and the general idea of safety, security, and prosperity. It is the opposite of the state of war. In Hebrew, the word for peace was used in salutations and as an inquiry as to one's health. Among Judeans, it refers to the "health" in the sense of a peace of the body. Jesus uses this word to mean "peace" as opposed to war, "peace" as harmony, and "peace" as health.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

εἰ [90 verses](conj) Untranslated is ei, which is the particle used to express conditions "if" (with the indicative, implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect and direct questions, "whether." It also means "if ever," "in case," and "whenever." In citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since."  It is combined with various conjunctions to create derivative conditions. When appearing as εἰ δὲ (literally, "if however") the sense is "if this...then that." The construction εἰ δὲ μή . . means "otherwise." The construction  εἰ οὖν has the sense of "if so." However, it is also used to express a wish. After verbs of wonder, delight, indignation, disappointment, contentment, and similar emotions, it is use instead of ὅτι, to express the object of the feeling in a hypothetical form, "that" with the indicative (not subjunctive). After ὅτι, it introduces a quotation where we use quotation marks. With the future tense, it is used for emphasis, a warning, or an intention.  When this word is paired with the conjunction translated as "but" or "however," the structure works like an "if then" statement in English.  With verbs of desire and emotion and the indicative in the second clause, the sense is "that." With an imperative, it is used to express a wish. The sense is "I wish that." With the future tense indicative, it is used for emphasis, a warning, or an intention. The emphasis clause is after the main statement.

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "Or" is de which means "but," "yet," "however," and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of an indirect cause ("so") and a condition ("if"). In an  "if" (εἰ) clause or temporal "when" (ὅταν) clause the sense is "if/when... then." In a series begun by men, it means "on the other hand." In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet." After an interruption, "so then." It can also be an explanation of cause ("so") and a condition ("if").  When used with a conditional starting a clause, the sense is "if/when...then." When used with a particle meaning "indeed" the sense is "on one hand...on the other hand." In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet." After an interruption, "so then."

μήγε [7 verses](particle) "Else" is mege, which is a contraction of me ge. The me is the negative used in prohibitions and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no." The ge is an emphatic particle meaning "at least" and "indeed." It emphasizes the word to which it is associated.

ἔτι [18 verses](adv) "Yet" is eti, which means "yet" and "still" (with the Present), "already" (with the Past), "yet" and "longer" (with the Future), "no longer" (with a negative), and"still" and "besides" (of degree).

αὐτοῦ [142 verses](adv/adj sg masc gen) "His/" is autou, which means is the singular adjective used as the genitive pronoun, which is used as a possessive form or the object of prepositions and sometimes verbs as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In its adverbial form, this means "just here" or "exactly there." This form is often used as the object of a preposition, him." This form of an object of a preposition means a movement away from something or a position away from something else. The time sense of a genitive object is that the event occurred within a specified time. Though the form is masculine, it refers to masculine words, not people.  The masculine form is used to refer to people in general, not just men.

πόρρω [3 verses](adv) "A great way off" is porro, which is an adverb that means "forwards," "onwards," generally with a notion of motion, of Distance, "far off," "too far," of Time, "forward," of Place, "further into."  -

ὄντος [614 verses]  (part sg pres act masc gen ) "Is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the possessive (genitive) object, it means "is descended from," "is the type of," "belongs to," "is made of," "is a duty of," "is at the mercy of," or " is dependent on." With an indirect (dative) object, it means "have" where the subject and object are reversed.  "It is to him" becomes "it is his" or "he has it."  With the preposition,"into" (εἰς), the sense is "consist of." When the verb "to be" appears early in the clause before the subject, the sense is more like "it is" or, in the plural, "there are."

πρεσβείαν [2 verses](noun sg fem acc) "An ambassage" is presbeia which means "age", "seniority", "right of the elder", "rank", "dignity", "body of ambassadors", and "intercession". -

ἀποστείλας  [60 verses](part sg aor act masc nom) "He sendeth"is apostello, which means "to send off," "to send away," or "to dispatch."  --- (CW) The "send " here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." This word is not the simple "send" but a more complex one that means "send out" or "send from." CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning of "sent off" or "sent out."

ἐρωτᾷ [17 verses](verb 3rd sg pres ind act) "Desireth" is from erotaowhich means "to ask," "beg," or "to question." This word means asking for information. 

πρὸς [92 verses](prep)  "For" is from pros, which means both "from" (descent, a place)," "on the side of," and "toward." Its meaning depends on the form of its object.  An indirect object (dative) implies no movement but in a fixed position. A direct object (accusative ) indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement. Events may show the amount of time. In statements about time, it means "at," "near," "about," or "for" a future time. With verbs of motion, towards, to, with verbs implying previous motion, upon, against; verbs of addition "to," verbs of seeing "towards," "to face," in hostile sense, "against, " "in accusation," without any hostile "to,"  "in reply to," of various kinds of intercourse or reciprocal action "with," "at the hands of," "incurred by," "inspired by," "before" a witness,  of Time, "towards," or "near," of Relation between two objects "in respect of," "touching," "in reference to," "in consequence of," "for a purpose," "in proportion," "in comparison with,"  of measurements of time "for,"  "a little past," of Numbers "up to," "about." A possessive object (genitive) indicates movement away or a position away from something, "from," "towards," "from the presence of." Events occur within a specified time. Examples of indirect object: "hard by," "near," "at," "close," "before one," "in the presence of," with verbs denoting motion towards a place "upon," "against," with a notion of clinging closely "clasped to," to express close engagement "at the point of," to express union or addition "besides," "in addition to."

εἰρήνην. [18 verses] (noun sg fem acc) "Peace" is eirene, which means "time of peace," "national tranquility," "peace," "tranquility," "personal tranquility," and "harmony." It is the name for the goddess of peace. Among Judeans, it refers to the "health" in the sense of a peace of the body. 

Front Page Date: 

Sep 24 2024