John 8:31 If ye continue in my word

Spoken to
audience

In answering his challengers, Jesus gives the credit for his words to his father. He then starts talking to his followers.

KJV

John 8:31 If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

NIV

John 8:31 If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

LISTENERS HEARD

When you stay within the message, this one of mine own, you are obviously my students.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

There is another joke here that is lost in translation. Jesus has just spent several verses claiming to his challengers that what he "passes on" comes from the one sending him, the father. However, here he tells his students that the message is his, using an unusual phrasing that emphasizes that idea as a punchline.

The Greek word translated as "word" and "teaching" is usually translated as "word" in the Bible, but it is not the Greek word for "word." It also has no relation to the Greek word for "teach," though the word translated as "disciples" does. In English, we would say "idea" or concept, but, since it also means the communication of various types, "message" often works better. More about this word in this article. It is introduced by an article, so the sense is "this message" and the "my" following it is more emphasized, "this one of mine own." This comes at the end of the sentence as the punch line.

MY TAKE

As far as his enemies were concerned, Jesus's words were his father's, but his students could think of them as his own.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "if" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "continue" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "mine own" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "word" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "word" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "then" doesn't exist in the source.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
7
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "if" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "hold" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "mine own" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "word" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "to" should be something more like "within."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "teaching" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
EACH WORD of KJV

If -- (CW) The Greek word meaning "when" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is how we use the word "when." This is not the simple "if.

ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

continue -- (CW) The word translated as "continue" has more of a sense of to "stay" or "remain."

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here. 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

my --(CW)  "My" is the regular first-person adjective in Greek indicating possession, so  "mine," "of me," "my," "relating to me," and "against me." -- "Me" is the first-person adjective, not the common pronoun, used in Greek to create a possessive or as the object of a preposition. Unlike the genitive pronoun, its case matches its noun. Perhaps "mine own" captures its best. Here, it is introduced by an article so "this, mine own."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

word, -- (CW)  "Word" is translated from a Greek word that means "calculation," or "reasoning," but it has many, many specific meanings from "deliberation" to "narrative."  It is the source of our word "logic" and is the root word for all the English words that end in "-ology." Most biblical translations translated it as "word" for somewhat poetic reasons. However, when applied to people, it means "repute" or "reputation." More about this word in this article. In English, we would say "idea" to describe it but it also means the communication of various types, so "message" often works better.

then -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "then" in the Greek source.

are -- The verb "are" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

ye -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."

disciples -- "Disciples" is from the Greek meaning "learner," "pupil," "student," and "apprentice." "Disciple" is a religious spin on this concept, but not part of the word itself. It is not related to "discipline" as "disciple" is.

indeed; --- "Indeed" is an adverb that means "actually," "really," "truly," and "obviously." It is from the adjective meaning "unconcealed" that is usually translated as "true." It is not commonly used by Jesus in Matthew and Mark. Luke used it to replace the Aramaic word amen ("truly").

EACH WORD of NIV

If -- (CW) The Greek word meaning "when" indicates more of an expectation of something happening than "if" alone. This is how we use the word "when." This is not the simple "if.

you -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

hold -- (CW) The word translated as "abide" has more of a sense of to "stay" or "remain." This is not the word "have," which most commonly means "hold."

to -- (WW) The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here. This word doesn't mean "to."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

my --(CW)  "My" is the regular first-person adjective in Greek indicating possession, so  "mine," "of me," "my," "relating to me," and "against me." -- "Me" is the first-person adjective, not the common pronoun, used in Greek to create a possessive or as the object of a preposition. Unlike the genitive pronoun, its case matches its noun. Perhaps "mine own" captures its best. Here, it is introduced by an article so "this, mine own."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

teaching, -- (CW)  "Teaching" is translated from a Greek word that means "calculation," or "reasoning," but it has many, many specific meanings from "deliberation" to "narrative."  It is the source of our word "logic" and is the root word for all the English words that end in "-ology." Most biblical translations translated it as "word" for somewhat poetic reasons. However, when applied to people, it means "repute" or "reputation." More about this word in this article. In English, we would say "idea" to describe it but it also means the communication of various types, so "message" often works better. It is not related to the word "teach."

you -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

are -- The verb "are" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.

really ; --- "Indeed" is an adverb that means "actually," "really," "truly," and "obviously." It is from the adjective meaning "unconcealed" that is usually translated as "true." It is not commonly used by Jesus in Matthew and Mark. Luke used it to replace the Aramaic word amen ("truly").

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine."

disciples -- "Disciples" is from the Greek meaning "learner," "pupil," "student," and "apprentice." "Disciple" is a religious spin on this concept, but not part of the word itself. It is not related to "discipline" as "disciple" is.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Ἐὰν [162 verses](conj) "If" is ean, which is a conditional particle (derived from ei (if) and an (might), which makes reference to a time and experience in the future that introduces but does not determine an event. This is how we use the word "when."

ὑμεῖς [92 verses](pron 2nd pl nom) "You" is hymeis (humeis), which is the plural nominative form of the second person, "you."

μείνητε [27 verses](2nd pl aor subj act) "Continue" is meno, which, as a verb, it means "stand fast" (in battle), "stay at home," "stay," "tarry," "remain as one was," "abide," and (transitive) "await."

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during." 

τῷ [821 verses](article sg masc dat)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

λόγῳ [80 verses](noun sg masc dat) "Word" is logos, which means "word," "computation," "relation," "explanation," "law," "rule of conduct," "continuous statement," "tradition," "discussion," "reckoning," "reputation" (when applied to people), and "value."

τῷ [821 verses](article sg masc dat)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

ἐμῷ,[28 verses](adj sg masc dat) "My" is emos, which means "mine," "of me," "my," "relating to me," and "against me." The form can also be the object of a preposition, "me."

ἀληθῶς [8 verses](adv) "Indeed" is alethos, which means, as an adverb, "actually," and "really."

μαθηταί (noun pl masc nom) "Disciples" is from mathetes, which means "learner," "pupil," "student," and "apprentice."

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

ἐστε, [614 verses](2nd pl pres ind act) "Are ye" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

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