John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father.

Spoken to
audience

Jesus tells his audience that, despite being Abraham's seed, they still need to do what the father has told them to do and what Abraham did.

KJV

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father.

 

NIV

John 8:41 You are doing the works of your own father.

LISTENERS HEARD

Your yourselves perform the works of that father of yours!

LOST IN TRANSLATION

Judging by their reaction, Jesus is playing with his listeners, use the same verb in three verses but changing its meaning. This sentence focuses on "you," beginning and ending with different forms of the pronoun. The subject pronoun starts the sentence with the sense of "you yourselves" because the information is repeated, once in the pronoun and again in the second-person verb.  However, because of this initial pronoun, this is more likely a statement despite the verb form being the same as in two earlier verses (John 8:39 or John 8:38) where it seemed more like a command. So Jesus changed its meaning. We can guess this by his listeners' reactions, which are defensive. No longer claiming that Abraham is their father, but they were not born of fornication but that God is their father.

MY TAKE

Our morality is relative because we get it from our relatives.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
1
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "own" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
EACH WORD of KJV

Ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

do  -- The Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  It is not as broad a word as the English "do," which covers all actions, productive or not. 

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

deeds -- The Greek word translated as "deeds" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

of -- This word "of"  comes from the genitive case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession.

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

father. -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

EACH WORD of NIV

You -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

are -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

doing -- The Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. It describes a productive action.  It is not as broad a word as the English "do," which covers all actions, productive or not. 

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

deeds -- The Greek word translated as "deeds" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

of -- This word "of"  comes from the genitive case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession.

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours."

own -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "own" in the Greek source.

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

father. -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

ὑμεῖς [92 verses](pron 2nd pl nom) "You" is hymeis (humeis), which is the plural nominative form of the second person, "you." -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

ποιεῖτε [168 verses] (2nd pl pres imperat act or 2nd pl pres ind act) "Do" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do."

τὰ [821 verses](article pl neut nom/acc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

ἔργα [31 verses] (noun pl neut nom/acc) "Deeds" is ergon, which means "works," "tasks," "deeds," "actions," "thing," and "matter."

τοῦ [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

πατρὸς [191 verses](noun sg masc gen) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

ὑμῶν [168 verses](pron 2nd pl gen) "Your/you" is humon, the plural possessive form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you." It is either a possessive pronoun or the object of a preposition.

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