John 17:13 And now come I to thee;

Spoken to: 

Father

After the Last Supper, Jesus prays. He just said that he protected all his followers except for one.

KJV: 

John 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

NIV : 

John 17:13 I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

LISTENERS HEARD: 

Now, however, I come to you, and I relay these things in this society so that they might have this joy, this my own, having been completed in themselves.

MY TAKE: 

The joy we feel in Jesus is his joy in us.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

The word translated "speak/say" is not the common "speak/say/tell" but a word that means to pass on information, often as gossip. The sense is "relay."

The "my joy" used one of Jesus's more complicated constructions  using two articles and a special word for "my" with the sense of "my own." It means "this joy, this my own." Jesus is making it very clear that the joy is his, even though he describes it in the context of being "completed in" or "completed by" his followers

The verb translated as "fulfilled/full" is actually a participle used as an adjective. The word means both "fulfilled" and "completed." Translating it as "completed" makes Jesus's words a little clearer when he is not talking about prophecy. It is in the passive, past perfect so "having been fulfilled." The "in/within themselves/them, " as the punchline, has a double meaning. The "in" can mean either "within" or "by" so the sense is that this joy fills them up, but also that it is completed by their being who they are.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

7
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "and" should be something more like "but."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "speak" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "mine own" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "my" is not the common word usually translated as "my."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "joy" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WV -- Wrong Voice -- This verb is a passive voice, which requires a form of "to be" as a helping verb. 
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "fulfilled" is not an active verb but a participle, "fulfilling."
  • WT --Wrong Tense - The English verb "fulfilled" is the past tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have been fulfilled."

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

10
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "and" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "but" should be something more like "and."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "say" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • IP - Inserted Phrase-- The phrase "while I am still" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WV -- Wrong Voice -- This verb is a passive voice, which requires a form of "to be" as a helping verb. 
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  The "full" is not an adjective but a participle, "fulfilled."
  • WT --Wrong Tense - The adjective has no tense, but Greek participle is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have been fulfilled."
  • IP - Inserted Phrase-- The phrase "measure of " doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "my" is not the common word usually translated as "my.".
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "joy" is not shown in the English translation.

EACH WORD of KJV : 

And -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "and" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so"). When used with a conditional starting a clause, the sense is "if/when...then." When used with an particle meaning "indeed" the sense is "on one hand...on the other hand."

now -- The Greek word translated as "now" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."

come -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

I  -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

to  -- The word translated as "to" means "towards," "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before." With verbs of seeing it specifically means "towards.

thee; -- The "thee/you" here is the singular, accusative (objective,) second-person pronoun. It is the object of either the action of the verb or a preposition. As an object of a preposition, it indicates movement or the result of movement.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

these -- The "these" is a pronoun that can mean "this" or "that," the nearer or the further depending on usage. It follows the noun so it repeats the idea of the noun as "this one." It is often used in the neuter plural to refer to "these things."

things -- Though the subject is plural, the verb is singular because neuter plural verbs are treated as a collective.

I - This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

speak -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "speak" is not the ordinary "to say," "to talk," "to tell," or "to speak" in Greek. This word means "idle chatter," "gossip," and "the proclamations of an oracle." Jesus uses it to capture the idea of "passing on." "conveying,"  or "relaying" information.  When there isn't an object, "transmit" captures the idea of being a conduit rather than a source of information.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

world, -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

that -- The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated. -- The word translated as "there" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," or "when."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

might -- This helping verb "might" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

have-- The word translated as "have" means to "have," "possess," "bear," "keep close," "hold in," "have means to do,"  "to have due to one," or "keep" and many specific uses. This verb isn't used to form past tenses as the helper verb does in English. Nor does it has the sense of "must" when used with infinitives.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

my -- (CW) "My" is the first-person adjective, not the common pronoun, used in Greek to create a possessive or as the object of a preposition. Unlike the genitive pronoun used as a possessive, its case matches its noun. Perhaps "mine own" captures its best.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more

joy - "Joy" is from a worth that means "joy" and "delight." More about Christ's use of emotions in this article.

missing "been"-- (WV) A phrase is necessary because the form of the previous verb is a passive voice.

fulfilled -- (WF, WT) "Fill" is a verb that means "to fill," "to fulfill," and "to fill full." However, its has a very strong sense of "making" something "full" or "complete." 

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

themselves. . -- "Themselves" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," and, in this case, "themselves."

EACH WORD of NIV : 

missing "however"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  MW - Missing Word -- The word "however" is not shown in the English translation." means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so"). When used with a conditional starting a clause, the sense is "if/when...then." When used with an particle meaning "indeed" the sense is "on one hand...on the other hand."

I  -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

am -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb. It is used here to form the present, progressive tense, which doesn't exist in Greek but which can smooth the flow of English sentences.

coming -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

to  -- The word translated as "to" means "towards," "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "in the presence of," "against," and several other types of "before." With verbs of seeing it specifically means "towards.

you ; -- The "thee/you" here is the singular, accusative (objective,) second-person pronoun. It is the object of either the action of the verb or a preposition. As an object of a preposition, it indicates movement or the result of movement.

now -- The Greek word translated as "now" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."

but --  (WW) The Greek word translated as "but" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

I - This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

say -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "say" is not the ordinary "to say," "to talk," "to tell," or "to speak" in Greek. This word means "idle chatter," "gossip," and "the proclamations of an oracle." Jesus uses it to capture the idea of "passing on." "conveying,"  or "relaying" information.  When there isn't an object, "transmit" captures the idea of being a conduit rather than a source of information.

these -- The "these" is a pronoun that can mean "this" or "that," the nearer or the further depending on usage. It follows the noun so it repeats the idea of the noun as "this one." It is often used in the neuter plural to refer to "these things."

things -- Though the subject is plural, the verb is singular because neuter plural verbs are treated as a collective.

while I am still -- (IP) There is nothing that can be translated as "while I am still" in the Greek source.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

world, -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

so that -- The word translated as "so that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated. -- The word translated as "there" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," or "when."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

have-- The word translated as "have" means to "have," "possess," "bear," "keep close," "hold in," "have means to do,"  "to have due to one," or "keep" and many specific uses. This verb isn't used to form past tenses as the helper verb does in English. Nor does it has the sense of "must" when used with infinitives.

the -- -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

missing "been"-- (WV) A phrase is necessary because the form of the previous verb is a passive voice.

full --  (WF, WT) "Full" is a verb that means "to fill," "to fulfill," and "to fill full." However, its has a very strong sense of "making" something "full" or "complete." 

measure of - (IP) There is nothing that can be translated as "measure of " in the Greek source.

my -- (CW) "My" is the first-person adjective, not the common pronoun, used in Greek to create a possessive or as the object of a preposition. Unlike the genitive pronoun used as a possessive, its case matches its noun. Perhaps "mine own" captures its best.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more

joy - "Joy" is from a worth that means "joy" and "delight." More about Christ's use of emotions in this article.

within -- The word translated as "within" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

them -- (CW) "Them" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," and, in this case, "themselves."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

νῦν [31 verses](adv) "Now" is nyn (nun), which means "now," "at the present moment," "at the present time," "just now," "presently," and "as it is."

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "But" is de which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of indirect cause ("so"). In an  "if" (εἰ ) clause or temporal "when" (ὅταν) clause the sense is "if/when... then." In a series begun by men, its means "on the other hand." In a series begun by men, its means "on the other hand."

πρὸς [92 verses](prep)  "Unto" is from pros, which means "from (place)," "on the side of," "toward," "before," "in the presence of," "in the eyes of," "before (supplication, a judge, a witness)," "near" a time, "for" the moment, "proceeding from (for effects)," "dependent on," "derivable from," "agreeable," "in comparison with," "becoming," "like," "at the point of," "in addition to," "against," and "before."  It also means "dependent upon." "

σε: [48 verses](pron 2nd sg acc) "Thee" is from se  the objective form of the second-person, singular pronoun. -- 

ἔρχομαι, [198 verses](1st sg pres ind mp) "Come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

ταῦτα [96 verses](adj pl neut acc) "These things" is tauta, which is a referring pronoun meaning "these," "this," "that," and "here." It can mean the nearer or the further depending on usage. As an adverb it can mean "therefore" and "that is why."

λαλῶ [49 verses](1st sg pres ind or subj act) "I speak" is laleo, which means "to talk," "to speak" "to prattle," "to chat," and [for oracles] "to proclaim." It also means "chatter" as the opposite of articulate speech. However, Jesus seems to use in in the sense of "relaying" information gained from another. 

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during."

τῷ [821 verses](article sg masc dat)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   

κόσμῳ, [63 verses](noun sg masc dat) "World" is kosmos, which mean "order," "good order," "ruler," "civilization," "world order," "universe," and "the world of men." It is a form of the is verb kosmeô, which means "to order," "to arrange," "to rule," "to adorn" (especially women), and "to equip." It especially means controlling and arranging an army.

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "so that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

ἔχωσιν  [181 verses](3rd pl pres subj act) "Might have" is echo, which means "to have," "to hold," "to possess," "to keep," "to have charge of," "to have due to one," "to maintain," "to hold fast," "to hold in," "to bear," "to carry," "to keep close," "to keep safe," and "to have means to do." In aorist, it can mean "acquire," or "get." The main sense when it has an object is "to have" or "to hold." It can also mean "to without" or "keep back" a thing. 

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

χαρὰν [14verses](noun sg fem acc) "Joy" is chara, which means "joy" and "delight." -

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

ἐμὴν [28 verses](adj sg masc nom) "My" is emos, which means "mine," "of me," "my," "relating to me," and "against me." The form can also be the object of a preposition, "me."

πεπληρωμένην [21 verses](verb part sg perf mp fem acc) "Fulfilled" is pleroo, which mean "to fill," "to fulfill," "to make full," "to make complete," "to pay in full," "to make pregnant," and "to fill full."

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during."

ἑαυτοῖς. [75 verses](adj pl masc dat) "Themselves" is heautou, is a reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," "itself" "themselves," and "ourselves." It is not the common pronoun meaning simply "he," "she," "them," etc

Wordplay: 

 The idea of being "holding" a "fullness", as we might say, "being filled to the brim."

Front Page Date: 

Dec 26 2022