John 17:1 Father, the hour is come;

Spoken to: 

John the Baptist

After the Last Supper, Jesus prays for the Apostles.

KJV: 

John 17:1 Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

NIV : 

John 17:1 Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.

LISTENERS HEARD: 

Father, it has started, this hour. Recognize yours, this Son, so that this Son might recognize You.

MY TAKE: 

The Father chooses what he enables us to do.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

Πάτερ, ἐλήλυθεν            ὥρα:
Father, it has started. the hour

δόξασόν     σου     τὸν  υἱόν,
Recognize  yours, the  Son.

ἵνα          υἱὸς   δοξάσῃ               σέ
so that the Son   might recognize You.

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

The word translated as "is come" primarily means "to start" and that meaning works fine here. It is in the perfect form, which means that its action been completed.  It is the start that has been completed at this point in time.

The word translated as "glorify" means "to think", "to imagine," and "to suppose." Its noun form, usually translated in the Bible as "glory" means "a reputation" or "repute. "Jesus uses it in the sense of "recognize," which captures both its sense of a reputation and what we "think" about someone. The verb is a in the form of a command (the imperative), which is also used for requests. Regarding the certainty of the action in the future, the Greek imperative is considered the least certain verb form. The second "glorify" is also uncertain because it is in the form of possibility (the subjunctive), something that might happen. this uncertainty reflects the uncertainty of the command that causes it.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

6
  • WT --Wrong Tense - The English verb "is come" is the present tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "has come."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "glorify" is more like "recognize."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "son" is not shown in the English translation.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "thy" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "son" is not shown in the English translation.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "also" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

3
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "glorify" is more like "recognize."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "son" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "thy" should be something more like "the."

EACH WORD of KJV : 

Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

hour - The word translated as "hour" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour." More generally, it means a period of time, like a "season."

is -- (WT) This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb, but the verb is the past perfect tense so "has."

come; -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

glorify -- (CW) The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work.  More about this word in this article.

thy -- The word translated as "thy" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form. This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child" or "descendant." The phrase "the son of man" is the common way Christ refers to himself. It is discussed in detail in this article. Its sense may be "the child of the man."

that -- The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated.

thy -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "they" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more.

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child" or "descendant." The phrase "the son of man" is the common way Christ refers to himself. It is discussed in detail in this article. Its sense may be "the child of the man."

also -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "also" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

glorify -- The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work.  More about this word in this article

thee:   -- The "thee/you" here is the singular, accusative (objective,) second-person pronoun. It is the object of either the action of the verb or a preposition. As an object of a preposition, it indicates movement or the result of movement.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

the  -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

hour - The word translated as "hour" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour." More generally, it means a period of time, like a "season."

has -- This helping verb indicates that the verb is in the past perfect tense.

come; -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

Glorify -- (CW) The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work.  More about this word in this article.

your -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form. This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child" or "descendant." The phrase "the son of man" is the common way Christ refers to himself. It is discussed in detail in this article. Its sense may be "the child of the man."

that -- The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated.

your   -- (WW) The word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more.

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child" or "descendant." The phrase "the son of man" is the common way Christ refers to himself. It is discussed in detail in this article. Its sense may be "the child of the man."

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

glorify -- The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work.  More about this word in this article

thee:   -- The "thee/you" here is the singular, accusative (objective,) second-person pronoun. It is the object of either the action of the verb or a preposition. As an object of a preposition, it indicates movement or the result of movement.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

Πάτερ, [191 verses](noun sg masc voc) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

ἐλήλυθεν [198 verses](3rd sg perf ind act) "Is come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

[821 verses](article sg fem nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

ὥρα [37 verses](noun sg fem nom ) "Hour" is hora, which means "any period," "season," (especially springtime), "year' (generally), "climate" (as determined by seasons), "duration," "the twelve equal parts into which the period of daylight was divided," "the fitting time" (for a task). 

δόξασόν [18 verses] (2nd sg aor imperat) "Glorify" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them. 

σου” [144 verses](pron 2nd sg gen) "Thy" is sou is the genitive form of the second-person, singular pronoun that means "of you" and "your." 

τὸν [821 verses](article sg masc acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

υἱὸν [158 verses](noun sg masc acc) "The Son" is huios, which means a "son," and more generally, a "child." It is used generally to refer to any male descendant.

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "so that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

υἱὸς [158 verses](noun sg masc nom​) "Son" is huios, which means a "son," and more generally, a "child." It is used generally to refer to any male descendant.

δοξάσῃ [18 verses] (3rd sg aor subj act) "Glorify" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them. 

σε: [48 verses](pron 2nd sg acc) "You" is from se  the objective form of the second-person, singular pronoun. --

Wordplay: 

The reversing of the Father glorifying the son and the son glorifying the Father. 

Related Verses: 

Front Page Date: 

Dec 14 2022