John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me,

Spoken to
Father

After the Last Supper, Jesus prays. He just said we are united by sharing a reputation

KJV

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

NIV

John 17:23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

LISTENERS HEARD

I am in the hands of them as you are in the hands of me: so that they might exist having been completed into one. So that  this society might learn to know, that you yourself sent me out, and cared for them just as you cared for me.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The initial subject pronouns, "I" and "you," have implied verbs of being so the sense is that "I am in them" and "you are in me." The "in" here describes a stationary place, but it also has the sense of "in the hands of." The next "and" acts as a comparison "as" less than a conjunction. Here it makes the connection between the two.

The English translation translates two different words as "that." One has the sense of "so that" but Jesus usually uses the other to mean /in order that." Two different words are translated as "in," the first means "in" or "within them" but the other means "into," or, in this case, "as far as." Jesus is using the word "one" here to mean "united." The verb "love" has the specific sense of "care for." So the sense is that when  we are in someone's hands, we care for them.

MY TAKE

Jesus left it to the apostles to teach the world that his Father sent him.

GREEK ORDER

ἐγὼ              ἐν  αὐτοῖς καὶ σὺ                       ἐν ἐμοί,
I am            in  them   as   you are                in me:

ἵνα       ὦσιν                    τετελειωμένοι                 εἰς        ἕν,
so that  they might exist having been completed into     one.

ἵνα         γινώσκῃ                               κόσμος   ὅτι        σύ                  με   ἀπέστειλας
So that   it might learn  to know this society     that      you yourself   me  sent out

καὶ   ἠγάπησας  αὐτοὺς καθὼς  ἐμὲ  ἠγάπησας.
and  loved         them     just as  me  you loved .

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
13
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "be" does not capture the word's specific meaning because it looks like a passive tense.
  • WT --Wrong Tense - The English verb "made perfect" is the past tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have made perfect."
  • CV  --Confusing Voice - The verb is either in the passive or in the middle voice and requires the concept of "yourselves" as its object.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "in" is not the same word translated as "in" above.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "and" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "that" is not the same word translated as "that" above.
  • missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "has" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "has" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word - This is one of two different verbs with different meanings translated as "love" so the translation confuses them.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "has" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word - This is one of two different verbs with different meanings translated as "love" so the translation confuses them.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
13
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "be" does not capture the word's specific meaning because it looks like a passive tense.
  • WT --Wrong Tense - The English verb "brought to complete" is the past tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have made complete."
  • CV  --Confusing Voice - The verb is either in the passive or in the middle voice and requires the concept of "yourselves" as its object.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "into" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "then" is the same word translated as "that" above.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "will" should be something more like "might."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "that" is not the same word translated as "that" above.
  • missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "have" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word - This is one of two different verbs with different meanings translated as "love" so the translation confuses them.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "have" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word - This is one of two different verbs with different meanings translated as "love" so the translation confuses them.
EACH WORD of KJV

I -- The subject pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."  When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed.

in   -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

them, -- The word translated as "them" or "to them" is the Greek adjective that acts like our third-person pronoun. The form is the third person, plural as an indirect object of the verb or the object of a preposition. A dative object of a preposition implies no movement but in a fixed position.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

thou -- The  "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

me, -- The "me" is in the indirect object form of the first-person pronoun, so usually "to me,""for me," and "by me." A dative object of a preposition implies no movement, but in a fixed position, events that occur at a specified time or while the action was being performed.

that -- The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated. -- The word translated as "there" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," or "when."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

be -- (CW) The verb "be" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. It is confusing here because it is made to appear as a helping verb, creating a passive, which it is not.

made perfect  - - (WT, CV) This is from a verb that means "make perfect", "to make complete", "make perfect", "to bring to consummation," and "to bring fruit to maturity." This is a participle and it is the past perfect, so "have made perfect" but its voice is either the passive (separate from the verb above) or the middle voice, something the apostles do to themselves.

in-- (CW) The word translated as "in" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject,"up to" limits in time and measure, and "for" a purpose or object. It is notthe "in" earlier in this verse and in the other verses about being "in" each other,

one; -- The Greek word translated as "one " means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single," and "one and the same."As in English, it can be used as a pronoun, meaning a single person.

and -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "and" in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

that -- The word translated as "that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated.

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

world . -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

know -- "Know" is a verb that means "to know," "to recognize," "make known," "to know carnally," and "to learn." The idea of "realize" seems to capture most senses of this word better than "know," which is the meaning of "have seen."

that -- (CW) The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore." It is not the "that" above.

thou -- The  "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."

hast -- (WT) This helping verb "has" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

sent   --- (CW) The "send " here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." This word is not the simple "send" but a more complex one that means "send out" or "send from." CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

hast -- (WT) This helping verb "has" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

loved -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

them, -- The word translated as "them" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English in the form of a plural object of a verb or preposition.

as  -- "As" is from a Greek word that means which means "even as," "how," and, in relating to time, "as" and "when."

thou -- This is from the second-person, singular form of the verb.

hast -- (WT) This helping verb "has" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

loved -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

EACH WORD of NIV

I -- The subject pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."  When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed.

in   -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

them, -- The word translated as "them" or "to them" is the Greek adjective that acts like our third-person pronoun. The form is the third person, plural as an indirect object of the verb or the object of a preposition. A dative object of a preposition implies no movement but in a fixed position.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

you- The  "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

me, -- The "me" is in the indirect object form of the first-person pronoun, so usually "to me,""for me," and "by me." A dative object of a preposition implies no movement, but in a fixed position, events that occur at a specified time or while the action was being performed.

so that -- The word translated as "so that" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because." It is used as an introduction to a command, where it isn't translated. -- The word translated as "there" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," or "when."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

may -- This helping verb "may" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

be -- (CW) The verb "be" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics.  The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions. It is confusing here because it is made to appear as a helping verb, creating a passive, which it is not.

brought to complete - - (WT, CV) This is from a verb that means "make perfect", "to make complete", "make perfect", "to bring to consummation," and "to bring fruit to maturity." This is a participle and it is the past perfect, so "have made perfect" but its voice is either the passive (separate from the verb above) or the middle voice, something the apostles do to themselves.

missing "into"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "into" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject,"up to" limits in time and measure, and "for" a purpose or object. It is not the "in" earlier in this verse and in the other verses about being "in" each other,

unity; -- The Greek word translated as "unity" means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single," and "one and the same."As in English, it can be used as a pronoun, meaning a single person.

Then -- (CW) The word translated as "then" is a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" "when," or "because."  This is the word translated as "that" above.

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

world . -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

will -- (WW) This helping verb "will" indicates that the verb indicates future tense but the form is that of a possibility, the subjunctive. This should be a "might" or "should." Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

know -- "Know" is a verb that means "to know," "to recognize," "make known," "to know carnally," and "to learn." The idea of "realize" seems to capture most senses of this word better than "know," which is the meaning of "have seen."

that -- (CW) The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore." It is not the "that" above.

you -- The  "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "yourself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."

sent   --- (CW) The "send " here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." This word is not the simple "send" but a more complex one that means "send out" or "send from." CW --Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the word's specific meaning.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

have -- (WT) This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

loved -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

them, -- The word translated as "them" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English in the form of a plural object of a verb or preposition.

even as  -- "As" is from a Greek word that means which means "even as," "how," and, in relating to time, "as" and "when."

you -- This is from the second-person, singular form of the verb.

have -- (WT) This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

loved -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

ἐγὼ [162 verses](pron 1st sg masc nom) "I" is ego, which is the first-person singular pronoun meaning "I." It also means "I at least," "for my part," "indeed," and for myself. -- The pronoun "I" is used here.  When it has no verb, the verb "is" or the previous verb is assumed. When the subject of the sentence is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during."

αὐτοῖς, [55 verses](pron/adj pl masc dat) "Them" is the dative case of the third-person, plural adjective that is used as a pronoun. The word also means "the same,""one's true self," and "the soul" as opposed to the body. It also means "of one's own accord."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

σὺ  [36  verses](pron 2nd sg nom) "Thee/you" is su , which means "you" in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject.

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during." 

ἐμοί, [96 verses](pron 1st sg masc/fem dat) "Me" is moi (emoi) , which can be the object of some prepositions and as the object of a verb means "to me" "for me," and "by me."

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "so that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

ὦσιν [614 verses](3rd pl pres subj act) "They may be" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." With the dative, it means "have" where the subject and object are reversed.

τετελειωμένοι [5 verses](part pl perf mp masc nom) "Made perfect" is  teleioo, which is a verb that means "to make perfect", "to complete", "to bring to consummation," and "to bring fruit to maturity."

εἰς [325 verses](prep) "Into" is eis, which means "into (of place)," "up to (of time)," "until (of time)," "as much as (of measure or limit)," "as far as (of measure or limit)," "towards (to express relation)," "in regard to (to express relation)," "of an end or limit," and "for (of purpose or object)."

ἕν,[85 verses](noun sg masc acc) "One" is heis, which means "one" (as opposed to other numbers), "single," and "one and the same." This noun/adjective is irregular, having a number of forms depending on gender and case. It is always singular. 

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "so that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

γινώσκῃ [62 verses] (verb 3rd sg pres subj act) "May know," is ginosko which means "to learn to know," "to know by reflection or observation," and "to perceive."

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

κόσμος[63 verses](noun sg masc nom) "World" is kosmos, which mean "order," "good order," "ruler," "civilization," "world order," "universe," and "the world of men." It is a form of the is verb kosmeô, which means "to order," "to arrange," "to rule," "to adorn" (especially women), and "to equip." It especially means controlling and arranging an army

ὅτι [332 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hoti, which introduces a statement of fact "with regard to the fact that," "seeing that," and acts as a causal adverb meaning "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

σὺ  [36  verses](pron 2nd sg nom) "Thee/you" is su , which means "you" in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject.

με [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

ἀπέστειλας [60 verses](2nd sg aor ind act) "Hast sent" is apostello, which means "to send off," "to send away," or "to dispatch." 

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

ἠγάπησας [32 verses](2nd sg aor ind act) "Hast loved" is agapao, which means "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," "to caress," "to prize," "to desire," "to be pleased with," and "to be contended with."  This love is more associated with affection in relationships where we are obligated. Jesus uses another word. Jesus uses another word, phileô, which means "to love," "to like," "to be fond of doing," and "to show affection" to express "love" in the sense of like and dislike.He never uses the word eros, which describes romantic, sexual love.

αὐτοὺς [62 verses](pron pl masc acc) "Them"  is autos, in the form of the plural, object, masculine pronoun "them"

καθὼς [36 verses] (adv) "As" is kathos, which means "even as," "how," and, in relating to time, "as" and "when."

ἐμὲ [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."-- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

ἠγάπησας. [32 verses](2nd sg aor ind act) "Hast loved" is agapao, which means "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," "to caress," "to prize," "to desire," "to be pleased with," and "to be contended with."  This love is more associated with affection in relationships where we are obligated. Jesus uses another word. Jesus uses another word, phileô, which means "to love," "to like," "to be fond of doing," and "to show affection" to express "love" in the sense of like and dislike.He never uses the word eros, which describes romantic, sexual love.

Unimportant Opinions and Imaginings

However, this unity has a larger goal as well. Its purpose is to teach something to the world order, that is, the political organization of the world. The goals is to teach the people of the world why Christ was sent. This is done by the Father demonstrating his love for Christ's followers, that is, their on-going success in time over history.

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