John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself,

Spoken to
challengers

Jesus tells people that he is the light of the world. His opponents say his testimony is untrue because he is talking about himself.

KJV

John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

NIV

John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.

LISTENERS HEARD

And, if I myself testify about myself, true it is, this testimony of mine. Because I have seen from where I started and where I depart. You yourselves, however, have not seen from where I start myself or where I depart.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

Earlier in John 5:31, Jesus says that if he gives evidence about himself it isn't true. In this verse, he allows that his statement about being the light of the world (John 8:12) might be giving evidence about himself. However, in doing so, he uses the subjunctive voice, indicating only the possibility. This is implied in an English "if" or "when" clause.

In Jewish law, people can only testify to what they have seen with their own eyes. The verb translated as "know" has the primary meaning of "to see" and means "to know" in the same sense we use "I see" to mean "I know." Notice that Jesus uses the Greek past tense expressing a completed action (the past perfect) describing his "having seen." This makes Jesus a legitimate witness, while those challenging him are not. The same past tense is used for "not see" later in the verse, which, for some reason, both KJV and NIV change to another verb. Most Bibles stay with "not know."

Jesus also changes the voice and tense of the verb referring to where he "came" from. The first "I came" is in the tense that indicates a specific point in time, while the second "I come" is the present tense and middle voice, "I come by myself." This verb primarily means "to start," which is a transition that works well here.

MY TAKE

We do not know but we must trust where we came from and where we are going.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
13
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "myself" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "might" is needed from the form of the verb is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "bear record" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "of" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "yet" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "record" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "record" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb "know" is the present tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have seen."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "can" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "tell" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb "know" is the present tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have seen."
  • WV  - Wrong Voice - The verb is in the middle voice requiring the concept of "myself" as its object.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "myself" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "on behalf" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "record" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb "know" is the present tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have seen."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "valid" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "yourselves" is not shown in the English translation, but it is needed to capture the pronoun as well as the form of the verb.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "can" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "tell" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb "know" is the present tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have seen."
  • WV  - Wrong Voice - The verb is in the middle voice requiring the concept of "myself" as its object.
EACH WORD of KJV

Though -  "Though" is from a conjunction that means "and if," "even if," and "although."  It is a contraction of the conjunction "and" that joins and the particle that indicates a possibility,

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

missing "should" or "might"-- (MW) A helping verb is necessary because the following verb is a verb of possibility, a subjunctive, something that "should" or "might" occur. The helping verb is not needed in a clause beginning with an "if" or a "when." The "though" above translates out the "if."

bear record - (CW) "Bear record" is the Greek verb that means "to give testimony" and "to bear witness." It has the sense of being true testimony. It is the verb form of the Greek word for "testimony" and "proof," which is the source of our word "martyr," and its funny spelling.

of -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "of" means "around" when referring to a place, but in referring to a subject, it means "about," "concerning," "on account of," and "in regard to." This is the way Jesus usually uses it. It is not common word "of."

myself, -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "myself."

yet --- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "yet" in the Greek source.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

record - (CW) "Record" is from a Greek word that means "testimony," "proof," and "evidence."

is -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to."

true: - The word translated as "true" primarily means "unconcealed", based on the noun form, which means "what is not hidden."   It therefore means "so true," an accentuated form of true, with nothing hidden.

for  -- The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

know -- (WT) The word translated as "know" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. The tense is the past, perfect, "have seen."

whence -- "Whence" is from an adverb which means "whence" and "from what source."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

came, -- The word translated as "came" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also."

whither -- The word translated as "whither" means as a pronoun "where?", "at what point," and [of manner] "how."  Jesus always seems to use it as "where."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

go; -- "Go" is a Greek verb that means literally "go under" or "bring under," and Jesus uses it to mean "go," but he often uses it to mean "go away" and "depart."

but -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

ye -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

can- -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "can" in the Greek source.

not -- The Greek word translated as "not" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words.

tell -- (CW, WT) The word translated as "tell" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. This words was translated as "know" above. The tense is the past, perfect, "have seen."

whence -- "Whence" is from an adverb which means "whence" and "from what source."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

come, -- (WV) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more. This is the middle voice, a change from the previous "came."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also."

whither -- The word translated as "whither" means as a pronoun "where?", "at what point," and [of manner] "how."  Jesus always seems to use it as "where."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

go; -- "Go" is a Greek verb that means literally "go under" or "bring under," and Jesus uses it to mean "go," but he often uses it to mean "go away" and "depart."

EACH WORD of NIV

Even if -  "Even if " is from a conjunction that means "and if," "even if," and "although."  It is a contraction of the conjunction "and" that joins and the particle that indicates a possibility,

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

testify - "Testify " is the Greek verb that means "to give testimony" and "to bear witness." It has the sense of being true testimony. It is the verb form of the Greek word for "testimony" and "proof," which is the source of our word "martyr," and its funny spelling. The "might" is implied by the "if."

on -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "on...behalf" means "around" when referring to a place, but in referring to a subject, it means "about," "concerning," "on account of," and "in regard to." This is the way Jesus usually uses it.

my own, -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "myself."

behalf,-- This completes the idea of the preposition "on" above.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

testimony - "Testimony " is from a Greek word that means "testimony," "proof," and "evidence."

is -- The verb "is" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to."

valid: - (CW) The word translated as "valid" primarily means "true," "unconcealed", based on the noun form, which means "what is not hidden."   It therefore means "so true," an accentuated form of true, with nothing hidden.

for  -- The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

know -- (WT) The word translated as "know" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. The tense is the past, perfect, "have seen."

where -- "Where" is from an adverb which means "whence" and "from what source."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

came, -- The word translated as "came" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

from -- --- This completes the idea of "where."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also."

where -- The word translated as "whither" means as a pronoun "where?", "at what point," and [of manner] "how."  Jesus always seems to use it as "where."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

am -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb.

going; -- "Going" is a Greek verb that means literally "go under" or "bring under," and Jesus uses it to mean "go," but he often uses it to mean "go away" and "depart."

But -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

you -- The pronoun "you" is used explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since it is already part of the verb, its use here creates emphasis on the "you" as we might say "you yourselves." It is plural.

missing "yourselves"  ---- (MW) The pronoun is used here explicitly as the subject of the sentence. Since this information is already in the verb, the sense is repetitive as we say "you yourselves."

have. -- (CW, WT) The word translated as "have...idea" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. This words was translated as "know" above. The tense is the past, perfect, "have seen."

no -- The Greek word translated as "no" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words.

idea -- This completes the meaning of the verb. 

where -- "Where" is from an adverb which means "whence" and "from what source."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

come, -- The word translated as "came" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

from -- --- This completes the idea of "where."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also."

where -- The word translated as "whither" means as a pronoun "where?", "at what point," and [of manner] "how."  Jesus always seems to use it as "where."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

am -- This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb.

going; -- "Going" is a Greek verb that means literally "go under" or "bring under," and Jesus uses it to mean "go," but he often uses it to mean "go away" and "depart."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Κἂν [8 verses](conj)  "Even if" is kan, which means "and if," "even if," and "although." It is a contraction of kai anKai is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." An, is a particle used with verbs to indicate that the action is limited by circumstances or defined by conditions. There is no exact equivalent in English, but it is translated as "possibly," "would have," "might," "should," and "could." -

ἐγὼ [162 verses](pron 1st sg masc nom) "I" is ego, which is the first-person singular pronoun meaning "I." It also means "I at least," "for my part," "indeed," and for myself.

μαρτυρῶ [16 verses] (1st sg pres subj act ) "Bear record" is martyreo, which means "to bear witness," "to give evidence," "give a good report," "testify to," and "acknowledge the value of." It is the basis for our word "martyr."

περὶ [73 verses](prep)  "of" is peri, which means "round about (Place)," "around," "about," "concerning," "on account of," "in regard to," "before," "above," "beyond," and "all around."

ἐμαυτοῦ [15 verses] (pron sg masc gen) "Myself" is emautou, which means "of me," and "of myself".

ἀληθής [7 verses](adj sg masc/fem nom) "True" is from alethes, which means "unconcealed", "so true", "not forgetting", "careful," [of persons] "truthful" "honest," [of oracles] "true" "unerring," and [as adverb] "actually" "in reality."

ἐστίν.[614 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "Is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

[821 verses](article sg femnom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

μαρτυρία [6 verses](noun sg fem nom) "Witness" is from martyria, which means "testimony," and "evidence." 

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

ὅτι [332 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hoti, which introduces a statement of fact "with regard to the fact that," "seeing that," and acts as a causal adverb meaning "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

οἶδα[38 verses](1st sg perf ind act) "I know" is oida which is a form of eido (ἴδω) which means "to see," "to examine," "to perceive," "to behold," "to know how to do," "to see with the mind's eye," and "to know."

πόθεν [9 verses](adv indeclform) "Whence" is from pothen, which means "whence" and "from what source."

ἦλθον [198 verses] (1st sg aor ind act) "I came" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

ποῦ [12 verses](pron or adv) "Wither" is pou, which means as a pronoun "where?", "at what point," and [of manner] "how." As an adverb. it means "somewhere", "anywhere", "doubtless," and "perhaps." The forms are the same.

ὑπάγω [47 verses] (1st sg pres ind act) "I go" is hypago, which means "to lead under," "to bring under," "to bring a person before judgment," "to lead on by degrees," "to take away from beneath," "to withdraw," "to go away," "to retire," "to draw off," and "off with you."

ὑμεῖς [92 verses](pron 2nd pl nom) "You" is hymeis (humeis), which is the plural nominative form of the second person, "you."

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "But" is de which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

οὐκ [269 verses](partic) "Not" is ou , the negative adverb for facts and statements, negating both single words and sentences.  The other negative adverb, μή applies to will and thought; οὐ denies, μή rejects; οὐ is absolute, μή relative; οὐ objective, μή subjective.

οἴδατε [38 verses] (2nd pl perf ind act) "Tell" is oida which is a form of eido (ἴδω) which means "to see," "to examine," "to perceive," "to behold," "to know how to do," "to see with the mind's eye," and "to know."

πόθεν [9 verses](adv indeclform) "Whence" is from pothen, which means "whence" and "from what source." -- "From where" is from an adverb which means "whence" and "from what source."

ἔρχομαι [198 verses](1st sg pres ind mp) "I come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place. -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

[92 verses](conj/adv)  "Or" is e which is a particle meaning "either," "or," or "than." OR (exclam) "Or" is e which is an exclamation meaning "hi!" OR (adv) "Or" is e, which is an adverb meaning "in truth" and "of a surety." -- "Or" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "or" but serves as "than" in a comparison. The same word could also be the exclamation "hi" or the adverb meaning "in truth."

ποῦ [12 verses] (adv/conj) "Wither" is pou, which means "where", "at what point," and [of manner] "how." Other forms mean "somewhere", "anywhere", "doubtless," and "perhaps." -- The word translated as "where" is in a form that means "anywhere" or "somewhere."

ὑπάγω [47 verses] (1st sg pres ind act) "I go" is hypago, which means "to lead under," "to bring under," "to bring a person before judgment," "to lead on by degrees," "to take away from beneath," "to withdraw," "to go away," "to retire," "to draw off," and "off with you." -- "Go your way" is a Greek verb that means literally "go under" or "bring under," and Jesus uses it to mean "go," but he often uses it to mean "go away" and "depart."

Wordplay

 The use of "coming from" as a references to the discussion's perspective as well as to a physical source. 

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