John 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you

Spoken to
Apostles

After the Last Supper, Jesus gives his final message to the apostles. Jesus said  that they would be treated as he had been.

KJV

John 15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

NIV

John 15:21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

 

LISTENERS HEARD

Instead, they perform all these things toward you for the sake of this name of mine because they have not seen the one sending me.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

"All these things" here refers to the verbs of the previous verse, which are both bad (being "persecuted/hounded") and good ("keeping/taking care of") so there is a double meaning here. Those doing both the bad and the good are doing its because of Jesus's reputation. Neither group, the opponents and supporters, has seen or known the one sending. They have only known Jesus, or rather, his reputation.

The verb translated as "do" primarily means "make." It could be the future tense, as translated, "will do," but it could also be a form of possibility, "might do." With the preposition that follows it, translated  in the KJV as "unto" and ignored in the NIV, this verb usually means "make into." In this case, the would be "make all these things into you," which doesn't seem to make sense, but I could be missing something.

MY TAKE

Our reputation and the reputations that we ally ourselves with determines how people treat us.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "but" is not the common word usually translated as "but."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "unto" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "name" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "him" should be something more like "the."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "sent" is not an active verb but a participle, "sending."
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
9
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "instead" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "all" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "treat" should be something more like "do."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "for" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WN  - Wrong Number- The word "this" is translated as singular but the Greek word is plural, "these."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "way" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "name" is not shown in the English translation.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "sent" is not an active verb but a participle, "sending."
EACH WORD of KJV

But -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "but" denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead," "but instead,"or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, "not this," with a positive one, "instead this."

all -- The word translated as "all" is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

these -- The "these" is a pronoun that can mean "this" or "that," the nearer or the further depending on usage. It follows the noun so it repeats the idea of the noun as "this one." It is often used in the neuter plural to refer to "these things."

things -- This is from the neutral, plural form of the previous words.

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates that the verb is the future tense, but the verb could also be something that "might" happen. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

do -- The Greek word translated as "do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly.

unto -- (CW) The word translated as "unto" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject,"up to" limits in time and measure, and "for" a purpose or object. This word usually indicates an indirect object, which isn't used here.

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

for --  The preposition translated as "for..sake" means with the accusative used here, means "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of."

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

name's -- The Greek word translated as "name" is much more complicated than it might at first appear. It can simply mean a "name" as it does in English, but it doesn't mean the things themselves, but what people call it. For example, it can mean a "false name," or "a pretense" as we say "this is a marriage in name only." It can also mean representing another person's authority, as we say, "he is acting in the name of the boss." See this article for more.

sake, -- This word finished the idea of the preposition beginning the phrases.

because -- The word translated as "because" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

know -- The word translated as "know" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. It is the past perfect tense so "have seen" but it is translated as the present tense of "know."  What someone "has seen" is what they "know" in the present. Since the past perfect of "see" forms the present tense of "know" the pluperfect tense used here, which indicates an action completed before some other action in the past, is used as the simple past tense, "knew." 

not -- The Greek word translated as "not" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words.

him -- (WW) The word translated as "him" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

that -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "that" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

sent -- (WF) "Sent" is from a Greek verb that means "send," "send forth," "send away," "conduct," and "escort." This is the second most common word Jesus uses that is translated as "send out," but this one doesn't have the prefix that has the sense of "out." The form is not an active verb, but a participle, "sending."

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

EACH WORD of NIV

missing "Instead"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "instead" denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead," "but instead,"or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, "not this," with a positive one, "instead this."

missing "all"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "all" is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

They -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates that the verb is the future tense, but the verb could also be something that "might" happen. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

treat -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly. This word is not translated as "treat."

missing "for"  -- (MW) The untranslated preposition"for" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject,"up to" limits in time and measure, and "for" a purpose or object. This word usually indicates an indirect object, which isn't used here.

you -- The "you" here is the second-person, plural pronoun in the form of an object of the action or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

this -- (WN) The word translated as "this" means  "this" or "that," the nearer or the further depending on usage. It follows the noun so it repeats the idea of the noun as "this one." It is not singular but plural. It is often used in the neuter plural to refer to "these things."

way -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "way" in the Greek source.

because of --  The preposition translated as "because of" means with the accusative used here, means "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of."

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

name's -- The Greek word translated as "name" is much more complicated than it might at first appear. It can simply mean a "name" as it does in English, but it doesn't mean the things themselves, but what people call it. For example, it can mean a "false name," or "a pretense" as we say "this is a marriage in name only." It can also mean representing another person's authority, as we say, "he is acting in the name of the boss." See this article for more.

sake, -- This word finished the idea of the preposition beginning the phrases.

for -- The word translated as "for" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

do -- This English helping verb is used to create questions, commands, negative statements, and smooth word flow in translation from Greek

not -- The Greek word translated as "not" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words.

know -- The word translated as "know" means primarily "to see" and is used to mean "know' as we use the word "see" to mean "know" in English. It is the past perfect tense so "have seen" but it is translated as the present tense of "know."  What someone "has seen" is what they "know" in the present. Since the past perfect of "see" forms the present tense of "know" the pluperfect tense used here, which indicates an action completed before some other action in the past, is used as the simple past tense, "knew."

 the one --  The word translated as "the one" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

who -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "who" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

sent -- (WF) "Sent" is from a Greek verb that means "send," "send forth," "send away," "conduct," and "escort." This is the second most common word Jesus uses that is translated as "send out," but this one doesn't have the prefix that has the sense of "out." The form is not an active verb, but a participle, "sending."

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

ἀλλὰ [154 verses](conj) "But" is alla, which means "instead," "otherwise," "but," "still," "at least," "except," "yet," nevertheless," "rather," "moreover," and "nay."

ταῦτα [96 verses](adj pl neut nom/acc) "These things" is tauta, which is a referring pronoun meaning "these," "this," "that," and "here." It can mean the nearer or the further depending on usage. As an adverb it can mean "therefore" and "that is why."

πάντα  [212 verses](adj pl neut nom/acc) "All" is pas, which means "all," "the whole," "every," "anyone," "all kinds," and "anything." In the adverbial form, it means "every way," "on every side," "in every way," and "altogether."

ποιήσουσιν [168 verses](verb verb 3rd pl fut ind act or 3rd pl aor subj act) "They do" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do." The accusative object is what is made. Double accusative is to do something to someone. When it has a genitive object, it means "made from." When it doesn't have an object, the verb is translated as  "perform" or simply "do." When used with an accusative infinitive, it means to "cause" or "bring about." A dative object means "made with." 

εἰς [325 verses](prep) "Unto" is eis, which means "into (of place)," "up to (of time)," "until (of time)," "as much as (of measure or limit)," "as far as (of measure or limit)," "towards (to express relation)," "in regard to (to express relation)," "of an end or limit," and "for (of purpose or object)."

ὑμᾶς [210 verses](pron 2nd pl acc) "You" is humas which is the plural objective form of the second-person pronoun, "you."

διὰ  [88 verses](prep) "For" is dia, which means with the genitive "through," "in the midst of," "in a line (movement)," "throughout (time)," "by (causal)," "for (causal)," "among," and "between." With the accusative, it can also be "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of."

τὸ [821 verses](article sg neut acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

ὄνομα [47 verses](noun sg neut acc) "Name" is onoma, which means "name." It means both the reputation of "fame," and "a name and nothing else," as opposed to a real person. Acting in someone's name means to act on their behalf, as their representative.

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

ὅτι [332 verses](adv/conj) "Because" is hoti, which introduces a statement of fact "with regard to the fact that," "seeing that," and acts as a causal adverb meaning "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

οὐκ [269 verses](partic) "Not" is ou , the negative adverb for facts and statements, negating both single words and sentences.  The other negative adverb, μή applies to will and thought; οὐ denies, μή rejects; οὐ is absolute, μή relative; οὐ objective, μή subjective.

οἴδασιν [38 verses](3rd pl perf ind act) "They know" is oida which has the sense of "to know." This listing is not a root word, but the past perfect tense of eido, which means "to see," "to examine," "to perceive," "to behold," "to know how to do," "to see with the mind's eye," and "to know." That which "has been seen" is that which is "known." This is a somewhat legalistic idea because the truth can only be established by eyewitnesses.

τὸν [821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "Him" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   

πέμψαντά [39 verses](part sg aor act masc acc) "Sent" is pempo, which means "send," "send forth," "send away," "conduct," and "escort."

με. [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

Unimportant Opinions and Imaginings

Remember in the previous verse, John 15:20, Christ said that people react in a range of ways towards his disciples: from persecuting them to guarding them. All these reactions come to them "through" Christ. The word translated as "for" (dia) in "for my name," actually means "through."

The message here is that all (pas) these reactions arise from two things: 1) people's inability to see the Father AND 2) the fact that they have seen Christ. Remember, one of Christ's major teachings is that the Father is hidden, and "the way" that we find Him is through Christ. Christ is the way because he is "unhidden" (John 14:6 I am the way).

The term translated as "know" here (eido) primarily means "to see" and "to examine." It is different from the words translated as "know" in John 14:7 (If ye had known me, ), which is the verse following the "I am the way" verse above.

So, whether people react positively or negatively to Christ's words, it is a reaction to Christ, not the Father because people cannot see the Father. They do not see Christ's words as the Father's words.

 

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