Luke 11:2 When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven,

Spoken to: 

Apostles

One of his disciples asks him to teach them to pray

KJV: 

Luke 11:2 When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

NIV : 

Luke 11:2  “When you pray, say: “ ‘Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come

LISTENERS HEARD: 

Whenever you pray, say: Father, it must be made pure this name of yours. It must show up, this realm of yours.

MY TAKE: 

The the divine name "father" must be understood more purely than the common idea of "father, and the realm shows uo if we seek it.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

GREEK ORDER: 

 Ὅταν        προσεύχησθε, λέγετε Πάτερ, ἁγιασθήτω                 τὸ   ὄνομά σου:
Whenever you pray,        say:      Father, it must be made pure this name   of yours. 

ἐλθάτω                     βασιλεία σου:
It must show up, this realm       of yours.

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

The drama in this verse is that the verbs come before the subject, creating suspense in those listening wanting to know what must be sanctified and what must show up. The two verbs are 3rd-person commands, which in Greek, it like saying "it must" before the verb.

There is a definite article before both "name" and "kingdom" so the sense is "this name," referring to "father" and "this realm" perhaps referring to the realm we are in whenever we pray, that of communion with the Divine.

The Greek verb translated as "hallowed be" means "to dedicate to God" "to purify,"  and "to sanctify" usually by burning an offering. In this sense, this can mean holy or sacred, but it also means accursed. Another way to think about this word is that it describes something set apart only for God. It is a passive form, so "be sanctified."

The Greek word translated as "come" means primarily to "start" and "to set out". It referring to movement, it means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place. It doesn't imply a direction as "come" implies most toward the speaker and "go" implies moving away from the speaker. It works most frequently like our construction, "show up," which indicates a new beginning and arrival.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

8
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word that should usually be translated as "when."
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "our" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "which art in heaven, " existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.-
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "name" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "kingdom" is not shown in the English translation.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth" existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

5
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word that should usually be translated as "when."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "name" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "kingdom" is not shown in the English translation.

EACH WORD of KJV : 

When -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "when" introduces a phrase that explains a certain condition so "whenever" or "since." This is not the more common word for "when." Here, the condition is less certain to happen.

ye -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

pray,-- The Greek word translated as "pray" means "to offer prayers of vows" either "to worship" or "ask for a thing." 

say, -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."    It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself."

Our -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

which art in heaven,-- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

Hallowed -- (WF) The "Hallowed be" here means to "purify" for dedication to the Divine, "to dedicate to God" and "to sanctify" usually by burning an offering. The noun form means "a thing that creates awe." Another way to think about this word is that it describes something set apart only for God. This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

thy -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

name. -- The Greek word translated as "name" is much more complicated than it might at first appear. It can simply mean a "name" as it does in English, but it doesn't mean the things themselves, but what people call it. For example, it can mean a "false name," or "a pretense" as we say "this is a marriage in name only." It can also mean representing another person's authority, as we say, "he is acting in the name of the boss." See this article for more.

Thy -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more.

kingdom-- The word translated as "kingdom" can be the region, the reign, the castle or the authority of a ruler. Christ does not seem to use it to mean a physical region, so its translation as "reign" or "realm" seems more appropriate. This is especially true because the "reign" of a king means the execution of his will.

come. - (WF) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more. This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must." WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."

Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. - (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

When -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "when" introduces a phrase that explains a certain condition so "whenever" or "since." This is not the more common word for "when." Here, the condition is less certain to happen.

you -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

pray,-- The Greek word translated as "pray" means "to offer prayers of vows" either "to worship" or "ask for a thing." 

say, -- The word translated as "say" is the most common word that means "to say," "to tell," and "to speak,"  but when used with an objective noun or pronoun, the sense is "say of" or "speak of."    It also has many ancillary meanings such as "to count" ("to number" or like we might say, "to recount" a story) or "to choose for yourself."

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

Hallowed -- (WF) The "Hallowed be" here means to "purify" for dedication to the Divine, "to dedicate to God" and "to sanctify" usually by burning an offering. The noun form means "a thing that creates awe." Another way to think about this word is that it describes something set apart only for God. This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

your -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

name. -- The Greek word translated as "name" is much more complicated than it might at first appear. It can simply mean a "name" as it does in English, but it doesn't mean the things themselves, but what people call it. For example, it can mean a "false name," or "a pretense" as we say "this is a marriage in name only." It can also mean representing another person's authority, as we say, "he is acting in the name of the boss." See this article for more.

your -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more.

kingdom-- The word translated as "kingdom" can be the region, the reign, the castle or the authority of a ruler. Christ does not seem to use it to mean a physical region, so its translation as "reign" or "realm" seems more appropriate. This is especially true because the "reign" of a king means the execution of his will.

come. - (WF) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more. This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must." WF -- Wrong Form -  This is not a statement, but a third-person command so it should be preceded by a "must."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

Ὅταν  [70 verses](adv/conj) "When" is from hotan, which means "whenever (as a condition)," and "since (as a cause)."

προσεύχεσθε [26 verses](2nd pl pres imperat) "Pray" is from proseuchomai, which means "to offer prayers or vows," "to worship," and "to pray for a thing. It is the combination of two Greek word, pros, meaning "towards" or "by reason of," and euchomai, meaning "to pray to God."

λέγετε  [264 verses] (verb 2nd pl pres imperat act) "Say" is lego, which means "to recount," "to tell over," "to say," "to speak," "to teach," "to mean," "boast of," "tell of," "recite," nominate," and "command." When used with an object is has the sense of "call by name."  It has a secondary meaning "pick out," "choose for oneself," "pick up," "gather," "count," and "recount." A less common word that is spelled the same means "to lay," "to lay asleep" and "to lull asleep." This word is more about making a statement than participating in a discussion. Translating is as "stated" might distinguish it better. When two accusative objects are used, the sense is  "say of him this," or "call him this." The form Jesus uses to describe his own speaking can be either indicative, "I say/tell" or subjunctive, "I should/could say/tell."

πατὴρ [191 verses](noun sg masc voc) "Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

ἁγιασθήτω [7 verses] (3rd sg aor imperat pass) "Hallowed be" it is hagiazo, which means "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God," "to dedicate people to God," "to purify," and "to cleanse externally or internally." This may be a special form of hagizo which means "to hallow," "to dedicate," and "to make sacred," commonly by burning a sacrifice. It may also be a verb from of the noun hagos, which means "a thing that creates awe." --

τὸ [821 verses](article sg masc nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones." Proper nouns do normally not take articles but they are needed when the noun ending cannot be changed to show the noun's role in the sentence as an object, indirect object, or genitive (possessive) form. However, the Greek article is very close to "this" so the purpose of an article like this can also be demonstrative. See this article.   -

ὄνομά [47 verses](noun sg neut nom) "Name" is onoma, which means "name." It means both the reputation of "fame," and "a name and nothing else," as opposed to a real person. Acting in someone's name means to act on their behalf, as their representative.

σου [144 verses](pron 2nd sg gen) "Thy" is sou is the genitive form of the second-person, singular pronoun that means "of you" and "your." As a genitive object of a preposition, as here, it means a movement away from something or a position away from something else.  Come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place. -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

ἐλθάτω [198 verses] (3rd sg aor imperat act) "Come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place. -

[821 verses](article sg fem nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones." Proper nouns do normally not take articles but they are needed when the noun ending cannot be changed to show the noun's role in the sentence as an object, indirect object, or genitive (possessive) form. However, the Greek article is very close to "this" so the purpose of an article like this can also be demonstrative. See this article.  

βασιλεία [98 verses](noun sg fem nom ) "Kingdom" is basileia, which means "kingdom," "dominion," "hereditary monarchy," "kingly office," (passive) "being ruled by a king," and "reign."

σου [144 verses](pron 2nd sg gen) "Thy" is sou is the genitive form of the second-person, singular pronoun that means "of you" and "your." As a genitive object of a preposition, as here, it means a movement away from something or a position away from something else.  -- The word translated as "your" is the genitive form of the singular, second-person pronoun, which is most commonly the possessive form.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of yours."

Related Verses: 

parallel comparison: 

The Greek verse doesn't include the "which are in heaven" section that appears in Matthew 6:9. nor does the Greek include in "thy will be done" phrase that appears in Matthew 6:10. . Other than the beginning, the vocabulary is the same as Matthew. 

Front Page Date: 

Apr 27 2024