John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it;

Spoken to
group

Jesus tells some Greeks and Apostles that the kernel of a seed must decay so that the seed can sprout, a metaphor about life after death.

KJV

John 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

NIV

John 12:25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

LISTENERS HEARD

The one enjoying that self of his destroys it. And the one despising that self of his in this society shall defend For its ongoing life.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

There is so much lost in translation here. The Greek noun initially translated as "life" twice is different than the noun translated as "life" in "perpetual life." The first noun is often translated as  "soul" but it means our awareness of our situation in this world (see this article). It is the Greek root of our English word "psyche." Translating it as "self" seems to work pretty consistently rather than switching between "life" and "soul" as the Bible does.

The verb translated as "love" is one of two different verbs that are both translated as "love." This one has more the sense of "cares about." It is not the love of enjoyment. So, we care about our psyche, even when we are not enjoying our life.  The phrase "he will lose it" is intentionally mistranslated as the future tense, to make it about the afterlife. In Jesus's words, it is the present tense, "he loses it." However, this verb could actually be another verb with the same exact form. The second verb means "he unties it"  or "he frees it." Jesus could have meant both ideas, choosing this verb form because of its double meaning. Both verbs work, but one meaning is negative ("loses it") and the other positive ("frees it"). So caring about who we are can be either positive or negative right now, not negative at some future time.

The second section of the verse is about our psyches as well, but the one we "hate." Here, that psyche is defined more specifically as "in this world" or, more precisely, "in this society."  Here, the following verb is in the future tense, but it is not necessarily about the afterlife. It is simply what happens in the future.

But doesn't Jesus say that he "will keep it unto/for eternal life?" Not quite. I won't address the problems translating this phrase as "eternal life" because I have written about it elsewhere (see this article). However, the word translated as "for/until" has many meanings, depending on the context. If "a life o-going" is a time, its sense is "until a life on-going."  We should also note how preposition phrases like this usually work in Greek. When they follow a word, they tend to modify that word, whether it is a noun or a verb. Here, the phrase does not follow the verb "keep" but the noun, "world." So Jesus would normally be heard as saying "hate this life of yours in the world, this one, until a life on-going..." This sounds like having their psyche in a world where their life continues. Of course, this rule of word order is not set in stone, but it would be what is heard initially.

MY TAKE

It is not whether we love or hate our lives, but what we do with them that matters.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
13
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "he" is not the common word usually translated as "he."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "love" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the same word translated as "eternal life" below.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "shall" indicates the future tense, but that is not the tense here.
  • MM -- Many Meanings -- This word translated as "lose"  has several different meanings that work here and is a form of wordplay.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "he" is not the common word usually translated as "he."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the same word translated as "eternal life" below.
  • WP -- Wrongly Placed -- The preposition phrase "into eternal life" doesn't appear here but before the verb for rest.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
15
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "anyone" should be something more like "the one."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "loves" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • WN  - Wrong Number- The word "their" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the same word translated as "eternal life" below.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "will" indicates the future tense, but that is not the tense here.
  • MM -- Many Meanings -- This word translated as "lose"  has several different meanings that work here and is a form of wordplay.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "while" should be something more like "and."
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "anyone" should be something more like "the one."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WN  - Wrong Number- The word "their" is translated as plural but the Greek word is singular.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the same word translated as "eternal life" below.
  • WP -- Wrongly Placed -- The preposition phrase "for eternal life" doesn't appear here but before the verb for rest.
EACH WORD of KJV

He -- (CW) The word translated as "he" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

that -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "that" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

loveth -- (CW)  "Love" is one of two Greek words that are translated as "love" but mean different things. The verb expresses a preference or a liking for something or someone.  It's meaning is more like "like" than "love" in English. More on the two types of "love" in this article. -- Confusing Word -- The "love" is a Greek word that is more like "like" than "love" in English.

his -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

life  --(CW) The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word. It is not the word "life" used in "eternal life" below."

shall -- (WT) There is nothing that can be translated as "shall" in the Greek source. The following verb is not the future tense nor in a form that requires a "might" or "should."

lose-- (MM) The word translated as "lose" means to destroy or demolish and can me "perish" in the passive. However, it can also mean to "lose" things. ts literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from." It is often used in the middle voice to describe people losing or destroying themselves. OR -- The Greek verb translated as "lose" means "to loose from" "to set free," "to release," "to acquit,"  and "to divorce [a wife]." Its root is the word that means "untie" with the sense of "untie from," so our word "released."

it; -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also").

he -- (CW) The word translated as "he" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

that -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "that" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

hateth -- "Hate" is a Greek verb is translated as "to hate," “would not suffer,” and in passive, "to be hated. But this word doesn't have the passionate or emotional intensity of the word “hate” in English. The word expresses a negative preference, not a strong passion. Jesus uses this word as the opposite of both the common Greek word translated as "love," whose meanings are closer to “care for” and “enjoy” (see this article). So, it means “not caring for” and “not enjoying. See this article on Greek concepts of love for more information.

his -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

life  -- (CW) The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

this -- "This" is a demonstrative pronoun that means "this," "here," "the nearer," and "the familiar." It often stands apart from its noun, acting like a pronoun, "this one here" or "this here." When it follows the noun, as it does here, it emphasizes it, "this one."

world - Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

shall -- This helping verb "shall" indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

keep --  "Keep" is from a Greek verb that  means "to keep watch," "to guard," "to defend," "to keep watch and ward," and "to wait in ambush for."  It is a metaphor for "preserve," "maintain,"and "cherish."

it; -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. 

unto -- (WP) The word translated as "unto" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "in regards to" a subject, and "up to" limits in time and measure. This preposition phrase appears before the verb "shall keep" and could modify it or the "this world."

life-- The word translated as "life" means "living" but it also means "substance," "existence," and "property."Jesus uses it to mean the "existence" of physical life, spirit plus body. To learn more read this article on life eternal, For more on how Christ uses this word with other words about human existence (soul, heart, spirit, body, etc.), read this article.

eternal. " -- "Eternal" is an adjective based on the word that means "age" or "eon." It has the sense of "perpetual" or "ageless."

EACH WORD of NIV

Anyone -- (WW) The word translated as "anyone" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

who -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "who" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

loves -- (CW)  "Love" is one of two Greek words that are translated as "love" but mean different things. The verb expresses a preference or a liking for something or someone.  It's meaning is more like "like" than "love" in English. More on the two types of "love" in this article. -- Confusing Word -- The "love" is a Greek word that is more like "like" than "love" in English.

their -- (WN) The word translated as "their" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  It is singular. This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

life  --(CW) The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word. It is not the word "life" used in "eternal life" below."

will -- (WT) There is nothing that can be translated as "will" in the Greek source. The following verb is not the future tense nor in a form that requires a "might" or "should."

lose-- (MM) The word translated as "lose" means to destroy or demolish and can me "perish" in the passive. However, it can also mean to "lose" things. ts literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from." It is often used in the middle voice to describe people losing or destroying themselves. OR -- The Greek verb translated as "lose" means "to loose from" "to set free," "to release," "to acquit,"  and "to divorce [a wife]." Its root is the word that means "untie" with the sense of "untie from," so our word "released."

it; -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.

while -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also").

anyone -- (WW) The word translated as "anyone" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

who -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "who" in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

hates- - "Hate" is a Greek verb is translated as "to hate," “would not suffer,” and in passive, "to be hated. But this word doesn't have the passionate or emotional intensity of the word “hate” in English. The word expresses a negative preference, not a strong passion. Jesus uses this word as the opposite of both the common Greek word translated as "love," whose meanings are closer to “care for” and “enjoy” (see this article). So, it means “not caring for” and “not enjoying.. See this article on Greek concepts of love for more information.

their -- (WN) The word translated as "their" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  It is singular. This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

life  --(CW) The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word. It is not the word "life" used in "eternal life" below."

will -- (WT) There is nothing that can be translated as "will" in the Greek source. The following verb is not the future tense nor in a form that requires a "might" or "should."

his -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more.

life  -- (CW) The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word.

in -- The word translated as "in" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

this -- "This" is a demonstrative pronoun that means "this," "here," "the nearer," and "the familiar." It often stands apart from its noun, acting like a pronoun, "this one here" or "this here." When it follows the noun, as it does here, it emphasizes it, "this one."

world - Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

will -- This helping verb "will" indicates that the verb is the future tense. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

keep --  "Keep" is from a Greek verb that  means "to keep watch," "to guard," "to defend," "to keep watch and ward," and "to wait in ambush for."  It is a metaphor for "preserve," "maintain,"and "cherish."

it; -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. 

for--WP) The word translated as "for" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "in regards to" a subject, and "up to" limits in time and measure. It can also mean "for" a purpose. This preposition phrase appears before the verb "shall keep" and could modify it or the "this world."

life-- The word translated as "life" means "living" but it also means "substance," "existence," and "property."Jesus uses it to mean the "existence" of physical life, spirit plus body. To learn more read this article on life eternal, For more on how Christ uses this word with other words about human existence (soul, heart, spirit, body, etc.), read this article.

eternal. " -- "Eternal" is an adjective based on the word that means "age" or "eon." It has the sense of "perpetual" or "ageless."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "He" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

φιλῶν [12 verses]part sg pres act masc nom) "Loves" is phileo, which means "to love," "to regard with affection," "to kiss," and "to approve of."

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

ψυχὴν [33 verses](noun sg fem acc) "Life" is psyche, which means "breath," "life," "self," "personality," "spirit," and "soul." It is used for different aspects of "self," the emotional self, the conscious self, the intellectual self. It has a clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is also often translated as "soul."

αὐτοῦ [720 verses](adj sg masc gen) "His"  is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

ἀπολλύει [43 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "Shall lose" is apollymi, which means "to demolish," "to lay waste," "to lose" things, "to perish," "to die," "to cease to exist," and "to be undone." Its literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from."

OR

ἀπολλύει  [13 verses](3rd sg pres ind act) "Shall lose" is apolyo. which means "to loose from" "to set free," "to release," "to acquit," "to divorce [a wife]," "to do away with," and "to begin to count." In the passive, it means "to be released," "to be separated [combatants]," "to be brought forth [a child]," and "to be delivered [of a mother]," and "to be undone."

αὐτήν, [720 verses](adj sg fem acc) "It"  is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "He" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

μισῶν [20 verses](part sg pres act masc nom) Hate" is miseo, which is translated as "to hate," “would not suffer,” and in passive, "to be hated."

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

ψυχὴν [33 verses](noun sg fem acc) "Life" is psyche, which means "breath," "life," "self," "personality," "spirit," and "soul." It is used for different aspects of "self," the emotional self, the conscious self, and the intellectual self. It has a clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is also often translated as "soul."

αὐτοῦ [720 verses](adj sg masc gen) "His"  is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during." 

τῷ [821 verses](article sg masc dat)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  - missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

κόσμῳ [63 verses](noun sg masc dat) "World" is kosmos, which means "order," "good order," "ruler," "civilization," "world order," "universe," and "the world of men." It is a form of the is verb kosmeô, which means "to order," "to arrange," "to rule," "to adorn" (especially women), and "to equip." It especially means controlling and arranging an army. -

τούτῳ [51 verses](adj sg masc dat) "This" is toutos, which is a demonstrative pronoun that means "this," "here," "the nearer," and "the familiar."

εἰς [325 verses](prep) "Into" is eis, which means "into (of place)," "up to (of time)," "until (of time)," "as much as (of measure or limit)," "as far as (of measure or limit)," "towards (to express relation)," "in regard to (to express relation)," "of an end or limit," and "for (of purpose or object)."

ζωὴν ,[42 verses] (noun sg fem acc) "Life" is zoe, which means "living," "substance," "property," "existence," and, incidentally, "the scum on milk." It has the sense of how we say "make a living" to mean property. Homer used it more to mean the opposite of death.

αἰώνιον [23 verses](adj sg neut acc) "Eternal" is aionios, which means "lasting for an age," "perpetual," and "eternal." From "aion" which is used in the bible to mean an "age.

φυλάξει [6 verses](3rd sg fut ind act or verb 3rd sg aor subj act) "Shall keep" is from phylasso, which means "to keep watch," "to guard," "to defend," "to keep watch and ward," "to wait in ambush for," and "to observe" [at an appointed time]. It is a metaphor for "preserve," "maintain," and "cherish." It does not means "observe" in the sense of "honor" or "abide by." 

αὐτήν, [720 verses](adj sg fem acc) "It"  is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

Wordplay

 Double meanings for the words translated as "lose" and "keep" and "life." 

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