John 8:42 If God were your Father,

Spoken to: 

challengers

Jesus tells his audience that they do what their father does and they say that they only have one father, God.

KJV: 

John 8:42 If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

NIV : 

John 8:42 If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

LISTENERS HEARD: 

If that Divine was a father of yours, you should love me because I myself came out from the Divine and I am here. Because I have not, however, started from myself, rather that one there dispatched me.

MY TAKE: 

None of us can start from ourselves. We all need a push out into the world.

GREEK (Each Word Explained Bottom of Page): 

LOST IN TRANSLATION: 

Both English translations analyzed here leave out a lot of words and change a lot of others to make their versions work. Jesus is saying something very specific here. He lays it out very precisely but in a light-hearted way. This is confused because three different verbs are translated as "come" in various translations of this verse. Can we assume that Jesus uses three different words because he meant three different ideas? Why then should we ignore the differences?

The first one, translated as (KJV) "preceded from" and (NIV) "have come" means "come out" from the root of the common Greek word used translated as "come." The second one, translated as (KJV) "come" and (NIV) "here" means "arrived" or "am present."

The third one, translated as (KJV) "came" and (NIV) "have come" primarily means "to start" and can be either "go" or "come" but the Bible usually translates it as "come." However, here, it seems to have the sense of "started from." We can tell because it is preceded by the prepositional phrase "from myself" with the "myself" in a form that implies movement. This is translated in the Bible as "of myself" and "on my own," but that would suggest the middle voice, a verb form in Greek when the subject acts by/for/on themselves. This verb is the simple active voice.

At another time (John 10:34), Jesus is accused of blasphemy for claiming to be a child of the Divine, but at this point, his opponents are claiming the same for themselves.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

8
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "proceeded" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "came" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "because" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The English verb "came" is the past tense, but Greek is in the past perfect, a completed action, "have ."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "he" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.

# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES: 

12
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "have" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "come" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "and" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "here" is not an adverb but an active verb, "am here" or "am present."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "God" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "because" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "not" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "on" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "except" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "God" should be something more like "that one there."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sent" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.

EACH WORD of KJV : 

If  --  The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if ever" and "whenever."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

God -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

were -- The verb "were" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions.

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours."

Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

ye -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

would -- "Would" is a particle used with verbs to indicate that the action is limited by circumstances or defined by conditions. There is no exact equivalent in English but "possibly" is close. This word works similarly to the "might" or "should" of a subjunctive verb, but we don't want to confuse it with the subjunctive so using "possibly" provides a consistent translation.  This particle usually suggests the subjunctive form of the verb but can be used without it. The same Greek letters can always be the more common conjunction meaning "when," so this meaning comes from context.

love -- The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me: -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

for --The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

proceeded -- (CW) The word translated as "proceeded" means literally "to go or come out," but it has a secondary meaning of "making something come true."

forth -- This is from the prefix of the verb that means "out of."

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

came -- (CW) The word translated as "shall come" is a complicated one because it indicates a "coming" that has been completed, that is, "to arrive" or, even, "to be present." As a metaphor, it means "to be a follower." Jesus seems to use it sometimes to mean "return."

from -- The Greek preposition translated as "of" means "out of" or "from." The word also means "beyond," "on," "in," "since," or "by"based upon its context. However, in Greek, they use the genitive case instead of a preposition for the types of phrases that are translated into English "of" phrases. This is the same as the prefix of the previous verb.

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

God; -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

missing "because"  -- (MW) The untranslated word introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

neither -- The Greek word for "neither" is an adverb that means "not at all" or "no even." As a conjunction, it works as both parts of the "neither/nor" constructions.

came  -- (WT) The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more. The tense is the past perfect, not the simple past.

I  -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

of -- (CW) The word translated as "of" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from."

myself,  -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "myself." It is used primarily as the object of a preposition. As a genitive object means a movement away from something or a position away from something else.

but -- (CW) The Greek word translated as "but" denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead," "but instead,"or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, not doing something, with a positive one, "instead do this."

he -- (CW) The word translated as "those" is an adjective that highlights its noun as being in a specific place or time from a word that means "there." Used a pronoun, as it is here, the sense is "that one there." Jesus often uses this word to refer to God in John.

sent -- (CW) The "sent" here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." It is not the same word translated as send in a number of recent verses (John 8:16, John 8:18, John 8:26, John 8:29, etc.)

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

EACH WORD of NIV : 

If  --  The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not. It also means "if ever" and "whenever."

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

God -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

were -- The verb "were" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. The word also means "to exist" and where it doesn't connect to characteristics or conditions.

your -- The word translated as "your" is a plural, second-person pronoun in the genitive case. This pronoun follows the noun so the possessive "of yours."

Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

you -- This is from the second-person, plural form of the verb.

would -- "Would" is a particle used with verbs to indicate that the action is limited by circumstances or defined by conditions. There is no exact equivalent in English but "possibly" is close. This word works similarly to the "might" or "should" of a subjunctive verb, but we don't want to confuse it with the subjunctive so using "possibly" provides a consistent translation.  This particle usually suggests the subjunctive form of the verb but can be used without it. The same Greek letters can always be the more common conjunction meaning "when," so this meaning comes from context.

love -- The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me: -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

for --The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

have -- (WT) This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

come -- (CW) The word translated as "proceeded" means literally "to go or come out," but it has a secondary meaning of "making something come true." This is missing the sense of "out."

missing "and"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it is can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

here -- (WF) The word translated as "here" means "to arrive" or, "to be present." As a metaphor, it means "to be a follower." It is not the adverb meaning "here."

from -- The Greek preposition translated as "of" means "out of" or "from." The word also means "beyond," "on," "in," "since," or "by"based upon its context. However, in Greek, they use the genitive case instead of a preposition for the types of phrases that are translated into English "of" phrases. This is the same as the prefix of the previous verb.

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

God; -- The word translated as "God" means "God" and "deity." It is introduced with an article, so "the God," "the Divine" or "the divine one." Jesus often uses it this way perhaps to indicate the one God as opposed to the pagan gods.

missing "because"  -- (MW) The untranslated word introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

have -- This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past.

not -- (CW) The word  is an adverb that means "not at all" or "not even" and, literally, "not, however." As a conjunction, it works as both parts of the "neither/nor" constructions.

come -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

on -- (CW) The word translated as "of" means "from" in both locations and when referring to a source or a cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done and "away from."

my own; -- The Greek reflexive pronoun is translated as "my own." It is used primarily as the object of a preposition. As a genitive object means a movement away from something or a position away from something else.

missing "except"  -- (MW) The untranslated word denotes an exception or simple opposition. It is used to emphasize the contrast between things like we use "instead," "but instead,"or "rather." It is not the common word usually translated as "but." It is the Greek word "other" like we use "otherwise." Jesus often uses this conjunction to connect a negative clause, not doing something, with a positive one, "instead do this."

God -- (WW) The word translated as "those" is an adjective that highlights its noun as being in a specific place or time from a word that means "there." Used a pronoun, as it is here, the sense is "that one there." Jesus often uses this word to refer to God in John.

sent -- (CW) The "sent" here is a word that means "to send off" and "dispatch." It is the source of our word "apostle." It is not the same word translated as send in a number of recent verses (John 8:16, John 8:18, John 8:26, John 8:29, etc.)

me. -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV : 

Εἰ [90 verses](conj) "If" is ei, which is the particle used to express conditions "if" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect questions, "whether." It also means "if ever," "in case," and "whenever." In citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since."  It is combined with various conjunctions to create derivative conditions.

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

θεὸς  [144 verses](noun sg masc nom) "God" is theos, which means "God," "divine," and "Deity."

πατὴρ [191 verses](noun sg masc nom) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

ὑμῶν [168 verses](pron 2nd pl gen) "Your/you" is humon, the plural possessive form of su the pronoun of the second person, "you." It is either a possessive pronoun or the object of a preposition.

ἦν [614 verses] (3rd sg imperf ind act) "Were" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen,"  and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.

ἠγαπᾶτε [32 verses](2nd pl imperf ind act) "Ye...love" is agapao, which means "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," "to caress," "to prize," "to desire," "to be pleased with," and "to be contended with."  This love is more associated with affection in relationships where we are obligated. Jesus uses another word. Jesus uses another word, phileô, which means "to love," "to like," "to be fond of doing," and "to show affection" to express "love" in the sense of like and dislike.He never uses the word eros, which describes romantic, sexual love.

ἂν [60 verses](particle) "Would" is an, which is a particle used with verbs to indicate that the action is limited by circumstances or defined by conditions. There is no exact equivalent in English, but it is translated as "possibly," "would have," "might," "should," and "could." 

ἐμὲ [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

ἐγὼ [162 verses](pron 1st sg masc nom) "I" is ego, which is the first-person singular pronoun meaning "I." It also means "I at least," "for my part," "indeed," and for myself.

γὰρ [205 verses](partic) "For" comes from gar which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for," "since," and "as." In an abrupt question, it means "why" and "what."

ἐκ [121 verses] (prep) "From" is ek, which means 1) [of motion] "out of," "from," "by," "away from;" 2) [of place] "beyond," "outside of," "beyond;" 3) [of succession] "after," "from;" 4) [of rest] "on," "in," 5) [of time] "since," "from," "at," "in;" 5) [of materials] "out of," "made from;" 6) cause, instrument, or means "by."

τοῦ [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

θεοῦ [144 verses](noun sg masc gen) "God" is theos, which means "God," "divine," and "Deity."

ἐξῆλθον[54 verses] (1st sg aor ind act) "Proceeded forth" i is exerchomai, which means "to come or go out of " "to march forth," "go out on," "to stand forth," "to exceed all bounds," "to come to an end," "to go out of office," and [of dreams or prophecies] "to come true."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

ἥκω: [11 verses](verb 1st sg pres ind/subj act) "Came" is heko, which means "to arrive," "to have come," "to be present," "to have reached a point, "to pass though a point (geometry)," "to have come back," "returned," "to have come to table," "concern," "relate to," "to depend upon," and, as a metaphor, "to be a follower."

οὐδὲ [51 verses](partic) "Neither" is oude, which, as a conjunction, means "but not," "neither," and "nor." As an adverb, it means "not at all" and "not even."

γὰρ [205 verses](partic) Untranslated comes from gar which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for," "since," and "as." In an abrupt question, it means "why" and "what."

ἀπ᾽ [190 verses]​(prep) "From" is apo, a preposition of separation which means "from" or "away from" from when referring to place or motion, "from" or "after" when referring to time, "from" as an origin or cause. It also means the instrument "by" which a thing is done.  Usually takes the genitive object.

ἐμαυτοῦ [15 verses] (pron sg masc gen)  "Myself" is emautou, which means "of me," and "of myself".

ἐλήλυθα, [198 verses](1st sg perf ind act) "Came I" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

ἀλλ᾽ [154 verses](conj) "But" is alla, which means "otherwise," "but," "still," "at least," "except," "yet," nevertheless," "rather," "moreover," and "nay."

ἐκεῖνός [107 verses](adj sg masc nom) "That" is ekeinos, which means "the person there," "that person," "that thing," and, in the form of an adverb, "in that case," "in that way," "at that place," and "in that manner."

με [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

ἀπέστειλεν. [60 verses](3rd sg aor ind act) "Sent"is apostello, which means "to send off," "to send away," or "to dispatch."

Related Verses: 

Front Page Date: 

Jun 5 2022